ADHD expert interview: Kristen Carder on emotional intelligence, self-regulation and business ownership

It's really recognizing like, I'm not the problem. I think that's such an important part of the conversation. I set out to figure out what is this disconnect? Are you willing to constantly feel like an imposter? That doesn't just go away. And nobody talks about it. We have to talk about emotion so much more. Is there a professional failure that embarrasses you? How much time do you have? 

Today we have Kristen Carder on the podcast. Kristen is an ADHD expert, a mindset coach, and the host of the top rated podcast, I Have ADHD. She previously ran a tutoring company for seven years before transitioning to ADHD coaching and podcasting full-time in 2020, and has been able since then to support thousands of people with ADHD. So welcome, Kristin. It's so great to have you on the ADHD Skills Lab. Hello. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, no, definitely. It's been wonderful. It's been on the cards for a while now. Tell me a little bit about where you're based. I am about an hour outside of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania. So I'm on the East Coast of the U.S. and I live in Reading with my husband and my three boys. Wow. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I've got one boy now, so on my way. So what was your ADHD diagnosis experience like? Was it something very recent or something that you've always known that you had? I was diagnosed when I was 21 years old. So I was in college. I was double majoring. I was not doing well. I was struggling with anxiety, disordered eating, depression. I had terrible grades even though I know I'm a relatively smart human. I was just really, really struggling. I hit what I think was a bottom for me. It was like a rock bottom for me at that time. And I remembered that my mom and dad had been talking to me about ADHD. My dad had recently been diagnosed. He read Ned Hallowell's book, Driven to Distraction, and was diagnosed in the 90s. And I guess this was like 2001. So I reached out and I said, I think I'm ready to be evaluated. And it was a very quick diagnostic process. Looking back, it was not very thorough at all. Although I am grateful to have received a diagnosis, it was not a thorough evaluation. Yeah, it's a tricky one. It is a little bit tricky to look back and be like, wow, that was not very thorough. But I was medicated right away. It made a huge difference in my life. I like to joke, my grades went on the fridge for the first time ever. It was my own fridge in my college apartment, but they're there on the fridge. And so that was great, but I didn't know anything about ADHD. Nobody told me about what it meant to have ADHD. I knew it meant that I struggled to focus, obviously, but didn't know anything else about it. And I didn't really think about it much for the next like 10 to 15 years. I took medication, but I didn't really think about it. Yeah, it is interesting. I think it depends on how you get access to ADHD because I have heard to those sort of both those stories, the story of like I got a diagnosis and then I just got medication and that was it. And then there's the I got a diagnosis and it was a very transformative experience. I went back through my past and I sort of reframed myself and my ADHD myself based on my understanding of it. So it is interesting. I think we're seeing more of the second one now, but at the time, very much the first one. For sure. And you know, to think about this was pre-internet. I mean, maybe the internet. Yeah, that was actually pre-internet, but it was pre-social media, pre-going to Google for everything. Like the internet was there, but we did not use it in the same way, right? In the year And also, now I understand that I also was suffering from complex PTSD as well. And so I just did not have the capacity or the capability to do a deep dive. I needed to just triage and just take the medication and get some relief. And that's exactly what it was for me. And now it's so good that people are doing a deep dive sooner, but I did not have the capacity to do that at the time. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And so what, like for you in terms of that deep dive, what was it that really sparked the, I need to go further, I need to understand both my ADHD and then also potentially, you know, my other things that might be coming along with it? Sure. Yeah, that's a really good question. So My deep dive into ADHD really started when I owned the tutoring center and I was working with so many ADHD students and I just could not, I could not figure out why I was attracting so many people with ADHD. Like now I know I'm literally a magnet for people with ADHD, but I didn't realize it at the time. And, you know, I was working with so many students who were struggling in school. I knew I had ADHD and I could tell these kiddos were super smart and there was just a disconnect. I set out to figure out, what is this disconnect? Let me learn about ADHD so I can help these students. And so I started reading all the books. And then when that was happening, I uncovered for myself, oh my goodness, everything I hate about myself is actually a symptom of ADHD. I cannot believe that I thought I was just flawed. I thought I just had these character flaws. I'd been diagnosed already for a decade, I didn't know about time blindness. I didn't know about working memory issues. I didn't know about emotional dysregulation. I didn't know about it. And so reading about all of that, it was like I was uncovering so much about myself. And then I was so excited to help the students and their parents understand more about themselves because it was such a discovery for myself. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's really interesting what you said just before about the idea that everything that you saw as a character flaw was ADHD, because that's a very powerful statement, I think, for two reasons. One is you're talking about ADHD, but also because we often have this sense of if I don't really understand what's happening, then it does feel like a character flaw. You're not neurotypical. Yeah. And that's the norm. And so you're outside of the norm. So therefore, it's easy to see how that becomes a thing if you don't understand it. And it's really interesting to talk to somebody who had the diagnosis, had the medication, but still didn't have that understanding. Yes, it's wild to think about now, right? Because we have access to so much information. Like every third video on TikTok that comes up is about ADHD and like how it manifests in your real life. And my video TikTok. But I understand because my TikTok is now the same. That's so funny. It's just like we didn't know. Like nobody told me. And could my parents have learned a little bit about it and told me more? They could have. You know, do I wish they had? I do. But yet it had to be a self-discovery and it didn't come until my 30s. Yeah, no, definitely. And it is interesting because I've had people on who are even, you know, more advanced and they were diagnosed in the 80s or even old, you know, previously to that. And I had Peter Schoenkeman on recently and he was talking about it as, you know, naughty kid in the back of the class. That's what it was. So there was this sense of like, you know, what we had, which was medication diagnosis, it's a kid thing, you might grow out of it. That's kind of all we know. was even more, even more, extrapolated back then. Yeah. And so now it's amazing to have all these resources. It really is. And, you know, it's so poignant what you were saying earlier, like you think it's a character flaw until you understand the symptoms. And I think it's really recognizing like, I'm not the problem. Like my ADHD is the problem, but I'm not the problem. So if I can work on solving the problem of ADHD, And I can kind of delegate the blame to ADHD rather than to my character. There must be something wrong with me. I must be really selfish. That's what I was told, and that's what I thought, that I was really selfish. I'm actually not a selfish person. But that is kind of the stigma that I carried because I was always late, because I was impulsive, because I made decisions about me. And so, yeah, to be able to put blame where blame belongs. and then work within the context of solving that problem is just such a gift. Yeah. Not just the blame for problems, but also understanding some of those strengths because I want to get into your long entrepreneurial history which I'm sure ADHD didn't. There's struggles, but there's definitely strategies there as well, which is helpful. You have a very long entrepreneurial history dating all the way back to 2012. What made you decide initially to run that first business? Actually, that was my second business. So my first business, I know, was in 2004, I started teaching voice and piano lessons. At first, I would just go to people's houses and teach their kids piano. But then it became more of like a music studio. And I had 25 to 30 repeat students every week. I came out of college wanting to do that. But it got really boring. Girl, it got so boring. Like how many times can you hear little Johnny play, like Mary had a little lamb, and then he doesn't practice for the week, and then he comes back, and you're just like, oh, we're doing this on still. So I had a couple students who excelled, and they were such a fun. They were a joy to teach. And a couple of them have music scholarships. A couple of them are like, they're doing very, very well. But that's like three. out of 30, right? And so the majority of my time was just so frustrating. And so I transitioned into tutoring. It was a much better fit for me. And I started that business because my mom was being trained in this brain training program. And I was just talking to her about it, and it sounded so fascinating, where you train the underlying cognitive skills of students. So you're not just tutoring math and reading, but you're helping them to become better learners. So really essentially like helping the root cause of the problem, not just put a bandaid on the symptom. And it was so fascinating to me. And so I ended up going out and getting trained with her. Now we didn't live near each other. So she started tutoring where she was and I started tutoring where I was and it just, I just grew it and grew it and grew it. That was fun. Yeah, definitely. You had quite a few people, you know, I saw it was like seven tutors. Very awesome. So at that point, were you thinking ADHD strategies or were you just thinking strategies? I'm curious whether anything that you found helpful either at the time or looking back as an ADHD entrepreneur. That is a great question. When I really began to learn about ADHD, one of the things that I realized was that I couldn't really continue to grow if I wasn't going to get help. And what I mean by help is like administrative support. And so, yes. And so that's something that I implemented in the last couple of years in that company. And that's one of the things that really helped me to grow it, being able to have seven employees was having that administrative support and being able to offload some of the things that I knew were quote unquote easy tasks, but I was not doing. Like I know they're easy. but they're not suited for my brain. So I need to hire someone who is suited to do this work. And so that was really, really helpful. And I think that I always tailor my work environment to suit me. And I just do that out of survival, like a need for survival, not narcissism. But I need to do it because I need to survive. So I create a lot of meetings with my team so that I'm co-working. I really enjoy coworking and I offload a lot of the administrative tasks and working with people is just very energizing for me. So I make sure to do that as much as possible. Yeah, that's really, that's a really great strategy and a lot of stuff there I do as well. Definitely love that admin support. Yes. Oh my goodness. Academia is less supportive of admin and man, it's a different life. Yeah. So what were some of the particular struggles that you experienced as an entrepreneur with ADHD? Anything that comes to mind? So in the past, I would say things like the very detailed tasks are hard, right? And so things like bookkeeping and making sure that the bills get paid on time and making sure that I am where I need to be on time. Like all of those things have always been a struggle. Scheduling, when I first started out, was a huge issue for me. And that was a big learning curve. I really had to put a lot of energy into learning how to schedule. Scheduling my students, because at the time, I was doing all the scheduling myself. Scheduling my students, scheduling my employees, scheduling myself, showing up where I needed to be. And I've missed appointments. I mean, that's so embarrassing and horrible. So those kinds of things have been the primary struggle. And then I would also say carrying the weight of a business is difficult. The actual emotional weight, that's something that I didn't learn until pretty recently of how to manage the emotions. Because entrepreneurship, man, I mean, you have to be able to feel fear and vulnerability and self-doubt constantly. You have to. to be able to carry that with you constantly. And so I was not well versed in emotional intelligence. So that was something that I really struggled with back in the day. Yeah, that's a really, really good point and something I don't think we talk enough about as entrepreneurs, especially with ADHD because of that emotional dysregulation piece. And that means that... It's tough, but it's particularly tough if you're running your own business and things going up and down all the time. It can be exciting. There's heaps of dopamine, but also there's heaps of opportunity to become emotionally dysregulated for sure. Absolutely. Emotional regulation is one of the things that I work with my clients on the most because I think that it is one of our weakest skills and it is one of the little known necessities in life. Nobody ever tells an entrepreneur like, okay, you can be an entrepreneur, you're smart, you've got a great idea, you've got time, you've got energy. But also, are you willing to feel afraid all the time? Because if you're not, then entrepreneurship is not for you. Are you willing to constantly feel like an imposter? Are you willing to feel self doubt all the time? If you're willing to feel those things, great. And I tell my clients like, That's what we're signing up for. That's the cost. Yes. Like we get to set our schedule and we get to work with the people that we want to work with and we get to do the things that we're gifted in and the price that we pay is that we feel afraid and we feel vulnerable and we feel self doubt constantly. Yeah, totally. And if you don't feel imposter syndrome, then that's, that's the problem. I totally agree. The research totally backs you up on that. We've been talking a lot about it in our podcast episodes and so much is coming out now this year on emotional regulation and the importance of that when it comes to ADHD and the fact that we don't talk about that enough, particularly if you've been undiagnosed for a while or maybe you were diagnosed, but you didn't fully grasp what it was. Sure. Like you talked about those character flaws. That doesn't just go away. You don't go, oh, well, I have ADHD. So I guess. I don't have to pay for the therapy of working through these issues. It's just gonna magically disappear. No way. If only. Yeah. You just be like, oh, I get it now. That's it. We're done. I'm cured and I'll never have like a bad experience. Again, it's more like now I have a new lens to see through. Now I have a new lens. It's all still the same stuff that's there, but now I'm processing it through a new lens. Yeah, no, definitely, definitely. So just to kind of round out that section, what advice would you give to others with ADHD who are just starting on their entrepreneurial journey? What would it be, understanding the emotional side of it? Would it be some other strategies as well? For sure, I would say figure out how you can support yourself in growing your emotional intelligence and your willingness to feel uncomfortable. because an entrepreneur will feel uncomfortable constantly. We also have the other end of the spectrum where we get to feel all that dopamine, right? And so it's a balance, but the discomfort is intense. And so whether it is a coaching program or a therapist or somatic healing practices or whatever the case may be, figure out how to identify, soothe, and process your emotions. So that's for sure. And then the other thing that I would say is hire administrative support before you think you need to, before you think you deserve to. So many entrepreneurs that I run into wait to hire help because it's all things that we can do. Well, I can do the scheduling. Well, I can do the invoices. Invoicing. It just takes me three hours instead of half an hour. Exactly. And the question is, OK, you can do it. Are you? Are you doing it? Are you doing it efficiently? Are you doing it on time? Is it taking all of your emotional, spiritual, mental energy to complete those tasks that you could hand off? So considering how much more money you could make if all of that was handed off to someone. And then you could spend time in your zone of genius, in the work that is magical for you. And so, yeah, I always like to say hire help before you think you need to. Yeah. Absolutely. 100%. I hired somebody, this is also my second business actually, we did do something before, and no administrative support, and this time we hired somebody. And wonderful, she's still here. Shout out to Robin, she's amazing. Hey, Robin. That's awesome. She's great. If you haven't talked to anybody on the internet, it's gonna be Robin. 

If you're starting the year already feeling overwhelmed by an ending list of tasks, check out the ADHD Academy. For the month of January, we're going to be offering you 15% off your first month subscription. Access to our limited edition 2024 January Goals Journal. as well as access to a live workshop that I will be running during January, where we'll meet and set ourselves up for a really great 2024 together. So if you're looking for science-backed strategies to finally tick off those tasks, tangible improvements in your daily life, personalized support from coaches, and the ability to celebrate your wins and grow in confidence, you've found the right place. Check out the link below for more information. Yeah, so that's kind of one side of what you do, which is the entrepreneurial side. I also wanted to talk about the podcast because you started a podcast in 2019. It's been very, very popular, listened to by so many people with ADHD, and it's something that I always see brought up when people say, hey, what should I listen to? I have ADHD. So I wanted to chat about that and hear, first of all, I'm sure you have many, but are there any particularly memorable episodes that you have? Yeah, absolutely. The podcast is one of the greatest joys of my life. As far as particularly memorable episodes, I cannot believe I have had the privilege of interviewing some really amazing ADHD, what I consider to be superstars. I always joke that if I were to see a movie star in person, I would not care. Tom Cruise, I'd be like, hey, what's up, Tom? But Dr. Russell Barkley, the fact that I've been able to speak with him personally and... Dr. Ned Hallowell and Dr. Patricia Quinn and Dr. Russell Ramsey and all of these giants. That's when I fangirl. That's when I get weird and silly and like, Oh my gosh, I know how influential they are. I know how much we as a community have needed their work and have just gained from their work. And now I see that in myself, I see it in my clients, I see it in the community. And I am just like, I fangirl so hardcore. It is it's actually embarrassing. So to be able, like those are the episodes that stick out because these are my heroes. Like the first two years of the podcast, I never invited a guest expert on because I was like, they're not gonna wanna talk to me. Like literally, I was like, they're not gonna wanna talk to me. It took me years to have somebody on. And so... now to understand like, no, they're actually lovely humans who want to share their work with the world. It's just so beautiful. Yeah, no, definitely. I think the ADHD podcast community is a really wonderful one. I've definitely felt so supported in the last couple of months doing it and having people on and yeah, it's great. You know, people often wonder, you know, what's the behind the scenes? It's everyone's lovely. Everyone's so great. I can confirm. Yeah, that's true. So from all of the different podcast episodes, are there some strategies that are your ADHD go-to that you keep coming back to? I feel like I'm gonna sound like a broken record on this podcast episode, and I am so sorry. But honestly, I believe with all of my heart that almost everything comes down to emotional regulation. I really do. The science behind emotions is that emotions fuel our actions. And so we take action or we don't take action. So we're procrastinating, avoiding, hiding. We're either taking action or not taking action because of an emotion. And so an ADHDer comes to me or to you or whoever and says, I can't figure out why I keep doing this thing or I can't figure out why I can't make myself do this thing. The answer is an emotion. And no one talks about it. We have to talk about emotion so much more. If emotion fuels our actions, then the problem is not the action that we're taking or not taking. The problem is, what emotion are you feeling? What's happening in your body that is either causing you to take that action or causing you to avoid, hide procrastination? And so if we talk about procrastination, that's just. a go-to for somebody with ADHD, right? Like we struggle with procrastination, full stop, end of story. The reason why we procrastinate is because of an emotion. Okay. So yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely, the research indicates that is for sure a big part of it. So if you were to talk to somebody, say they are struggling, they're on the couch and somehow they're talking to you. And they're experiencing, McCabe talks about that wall of awful. Nothing's getting past that right now. maybe they're on their phone. What advice would you give to get that person from where they are to doing the thing, to starting the thing? Okay, it's perfect. And I can actually see myself on the couch. I can see myself 10 years ago on the couch. I just dropped off two kids at preschool and I'm like, I have three hours to get work done. I have three hours. Carter, this is a gift. You have three child-free hours. Why are you scrolling on your phone? And I would just scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll. Here is the turning point. You check in, like the nurturing mom that we all wish we had. And you check in and you say, hey, what's going on? What's going on there? What's coming up for you? What are you feeling right now? So if I were to have paused in that moment really just given myself, I think it would have taken 15 seconds. Kristen, put your phone down, honey. Give yourself 15 seconds. What's coming up for you? Why don't you want to do your work? I would have been able to say, I'm scared. If I go do my work right now, I was at the tutoring business at the time, I'm going to have to make a direct offer to someone and say, do you want to work with me? it's going to be this much money. That's really scary, and I don't want to do it. And so then if I can recognize that fear, oh, that makes sense. You're feeling fear. That's really vulnerable and exposing to put yourself out there like that. That makes sense that you're feeling fear. Can we sit with this fear for a second and just let it be in our bodies? Okay. Yep, yep, yep. I'm like, nope. I'm already feeling the resistance to that. And that resistance is why Kristen Carder was sitting on the couch scrolling when she knew she had three free hours. You have three hours, Kristen. This is your time to work. Go get it done. Why are you sitting here on the couch? If we don't just let ourselves pause for just 15 seconds, what's coming up for you? Why are you sitting here? Why don't you want to do the thing? Instead of saying, I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it. Ask yourself, honey, why don't you want to do it? Tell me. Tell me everything. Yourself, your inner voice will tell you, I don't want to do it because I'm scared. I don't want to do it because I don't want to fail. I don't want to do it because it's going to be boring and I don't like to be bored. Right? So there's going to be an answer. Let yourself answer. What we're not really good at is creating a safe environment. for us to tell ourselves the truth. Because telling ourselves the truth, ooh, it's really hard. And it's because we've been judged probably since birth. Right? Neurodivergent babies are not easy to parent. I've got two of them. I know. I understand. So we've been judged since birth. And so we mask to the world, but we also mask to ourselves. We don't tell ourselves the truth. We don't say, oh, I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm scared. I need help. I need support. We don't give ourselves the space to say that. And so when you're procrastinating, listener, if you are on the couch right now and you're like, I don't know why I'm watching Netflix and eating ice cream. I just don't know. Ask yourself, honey, what's going on here? Why don't you want to do that thing? And the truth is probably going to be, I'm afraid. It's going to be boring. It's going to be uncomfortable. I don't know where to start. I don't know where to start. So good. And then the question is, so that's like a separate piece. So if it's an emotion like I'm afraid, I feel exposed, I'm uncomfortable, whatever, then the question is, are you willing to feel that in order to live the life you want to live? So like, if I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I have to feel afraid. If I want to get that new client, I have to write this email that makes me feel scared. Are you willing? If you're not willing, you need to go work at Starbucks. And that's fine. That's totally great. We could go get a job there today. And I say that to my husband a lot. I'm like, maybe I should just be a manager at McDonald's. And he's like, is that what you want? And I'm like, no, I just want to know that it's an option. Tomorrow. I just want to know that you'll let me do this. Right. I could be a great manager of a McDonald's franchise. And I wouldn't have to look at anybody in the face and make them a direct offer. I wouldn't have to sell. I would just manage. And it would be great. So figuring out what is going on is just such an important thing. And so in summary, I think the biggest thing that is woven throughout my podcast episodes and the biggest tool that I try to teach is learning that emotional regulation and being able to, even when you're saying, I don't know where to start, to sit with that confusion. OK, so are you feeling confused? Yes. OK, what does that feel like? Are you willing to just? take the risk of starting somewhere. Because even that is like, I don't like the feeling of taking a risk. It's still an emotion, right? Like I have to choose a place to start. That feels dangerous. Yeah, definitely, definitely. No, I think that's such an important part of the conversation. It doesn't always get had for sure. Yeah, definitely. Well, we have a few ADHD skills lab questions. These are just questions we ask everybody. So I'm going to start you off by asking about the professional achievements that you're the most proud of. I saw this question in advance and it is hard to give yourself credit. Do other people say that on here? Because it is just like really, I was like, oh my gosh, I would so much rather talk about my F-ups. then talk about the good things that I think that I've achieved. I will say that when I grew my business to a seven figure, like a sustainably seven figure company and it was just kind of like transitioned into that realm of like, this is a legit seven figure business. That was a new era for me. That just really felt like just an achievement of entrepreneurship that I. you know, I've been working towards since 2004 and feeling like I can actually do this. And it felt really like a new level unlocked kind of is how it felt. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. No, for sure. And on the other side, is there a professional failure that embarrasses you or embarrassed you and how did you deal with it? How much time do you have? My friend says that. I have so many. A couple easy ones are like appointments that I missed and just feeling like, how in the world can I call myself professional and not show up to an appointment? Someone's paying me money and I'm a no show. That always feels absolutely terrible. And that doesn't happen anymore because I have so much support. So another plug for getting yourself support. Oh, yeah. AP. Yeah. There have been emails that I've accidentally sent, you know, like to a list of 20,000 people being like, Oh, no, I was so wrong. So like, that's really embarrassing as well. But I would say overall, like the biggest thing that I'm still kind of grappling with is, I don't believe that I was coaching in a very trauma informed way prior to like two years ago. And so I feel like I started the first half of my coaching journey in a very untrauma-informed, trauma uninformed. I'm not sure how to say it. But I just don't feel like I was as empathetic as I wish that I was. And so looking back, and I can pinpoint exactly why the school that I was trained at was not very empathetic. I kind of emulated a lot of people that now I look back on them like, oh my goodness, I don't even want to be associated with them. Yeah. But it's on me to take responsibility for my part, which is I don't think I operated in a very empathetic way. And if you listen to the podcast all the way through, like some people go and they like binge it, and you can hear a definite shift in just even the way that I talk to people, I just was not the same person four years ago that I am today in that way. Yeah. And that's, and that's good. And that makes sense. And I think a lot of times with ADHD, Especially four years ago, you know, a lot of the support out there was very like, so what did you do wrong? And, you know, like it kind of came from that place a little bit. And there was a lot of that. That makes a lot of sense. In many ways. If you had an ADHD life motto, and this is just probably going to be one of many in your life, what would it be? You are not the problem. Yeah. That's it. I love that. You're not the problem. I used to walk into every scenario, every conversation, every interaction thinking, I'm the problem here, I'm the problem. What did I do wrong? If anybody was upset, I assumed that it was my fault. Somehow this has got to be my fault. And so just understanding now, you're not the problem has been so freeing. Yeah, no, 100%. That would do it. I love it. Well. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your story and your ADHD skills with us today, Kristen. It's been great to see you. Where can people find out more about you and what you do? You can go to my website, IhaveADHD.com. And you've already mentioned the podcast, the I Have ADHD podcast. And I hang out on Instagram, if anybody likes Instagram, @IHaveADHDpodcast. Yeah, no, and it's really, really good. So definitely check her out. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on. It's been really wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure. 

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