Katy Weber Talks Maintaining Routines with ADHD

Skye: Hi. We are the ADHD Skills Lab Podcast. My name is Skye.

Sarah: And my name is Sarah.

Skye: And we will be your hosts chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills in working through struggles in their lives.

Sarah: You might know us from Unconventional Organisation, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along, and we're going to chat through it together.

Skye: So today we are joined by the amazing Katie Weber. Katie is an author, public speaker, she was a health coach prior to her ADHD diagnosis in 2020, and since that diagnosis has started a very, very successful ADHD podcast, which I was lucky enough to be a guest on and really pivoted into that ADHD coaching space. Katie is also currently pursuing a Master of Science in clinical mental health counseling. And to top it all off, she lives with her husband, two children, dog, and two cats, making for what I'm sure is a very lively household. So welcome, Katie. It's great to have you.

Katy: Thank you. That was quite an introduction.

Skye: Well, it was quite a lot. So why don't we start by just telling where you're based, which country, and what are you doing there?

Katy: So, I am originally from Canada, but right now I am based in the Hudson Valley of New York in the US. Which is kind of the Catskills region outside of New York City.

Skye: Awesome. Very cool. So tell us a little bit about your ADHD diagnosis story. What was it like for you? I know it was a bit later, like a lot of people.

Katy: Yeah. I was 45, and I was officially diagnosed in 2020. So it was roughly right around the beginning of the pandemic, and that was really the catalyst for me. Although my therapist had been diagnosed with ADHD after her middle schooler son was diagnosed with ADHD. So, as we all know, once you're diagnosed with ADHD, you start to spot people all around you and you start to say, oh, yeah, that definitely and so she had sort of been gently suggesting to me, for a few years that I look into it. And I didn't know what that meant. I was a little bit insulted because I had this stereotype that ADHD is like somebody with no self control and a little naughty boy, and I had all of these stereotypes. So when she suggested I look into ADHD, I was sort of like, really? Is that what you think of me? I didn't know anything about it and didn't really connect to the hyperactivity element like many women. And then when the pandemic hit, I started complaining to my therapist about just how difficult it was for me to get anything done at home. It was like my kids were at home, my husband was at home. Suddenly, it was like, I felt like everybody's butler and teacher and housekeeper, and I found it really difficult. I just didn't know when somebody was going to, one of my kids was going to come out of their rooms and say, like, oh, the WiFi is out, or, I can't get on Zoom, or I felt like I was just in waiting mode all the time. But also, in the meantime, I was also having all of these thoughts about, like, what should I be doing with my time? And I should be really productive because we're all at home and everybody's building gardens and doing all these wonderful things, and I had all of these ideas.

Skye: So early pandemic.

Katy: Right? I know. The part when we were all kind of, like, stir crazy. So I had all these ideas, and I was complaining about the fact that I couldn't accomplish anything. And that was when she said, dude, look into ADHD.

Skye: Yeah.

Katy: And I was like, all right. And I took an online self test that was generic for adults, and I scored maybe like 50 or 60% on that test. There was a lot of the DSM questions about being run by a motor and not being able to sit still that I found very obtuse and didn't really relate to. And then I decided to take the one that Sari Solden had written specifically for women on ADDitude magazine's website, and that was the self test that just like, I ticked all the boxes. I aced that one. And that was a really eye opening moment for me, where I realized that ADHD, especially in women, is much more related to how we feel about ourselves in relation to the difficulty we have with domestic tasks. Right. And so her questions were all about, I remember, really deeply relating to that question about how if you hate when people show up unannounced at your house, and I was like, oh, what? That has to do with ADHD? And then you start connecting the dots, and that's when it's just like all the dominoes started falling.

Skye: Yeah, you need 24 hours notice minimum.

Katy: Right? Exactly. But just realizing how much we have this kind of public persona versus who we are behind the scenes. And those were those moments where I was like, oh, wow. And then it was just this profound, life changing experience of looking at everything I had gone through in my entire life through this new lens. It was so overwhelming.

Skye: Yeah. No, 100%. And, I mean, it's interesting you mentioned the pandemic and being at home, because I think a lot of people felt that way in those transition times. You mentioned being in waiting mode, but you're right. It's like you're suddenly in this space where you're just like, oh, I'm transitioning into helping my kid with WiFi, and I'm transitioning into this activity. The ability to sit down and to reduce stimulation to a point where you can focus. That is so much harder when you are in a space, especially a space where everyone's coming to you. Suddenly you've gone from whatever you're doing previously to a space where you are basically one of the jobs that often people really struggle with at work. Sometimes it's the reception desk. If they're also trying to do other things, it's almost like having that job.

Katy: Right. You never know when you're going to be interrupted.

Skye: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I completely understand the surprise. I was diagnosed at university without even realizing that I'd done a diagnosis test for ADHD. I came in for Dyslexia and they just went, we're going to put you through the battery. And they did some of the computer testing and other testing, and then they came away and they said, look, you might have Dyslexia, but you definitely have ADHD. And that was the first time I really heard about it outside of the context of, like you said, a little child in school. And the idea that adults have it and I have it. Yeah, it's a huge shift. So what made you decide to start your podcast? Because I know those were sort of quite tied together in time.

Katy: Yeah. Honestly, I don't tell a lot of people this, but I started the podcast before I was officially diagnosed because I had self diagnosed. And so I had gone through this while I was waiting for my diagnosis. I still had gone through this incredibly profound experience. And it was 2020. I was stuck at home. I was looking for, I guess, a new hyper focus and a new hobby. But I also, have a journalism background, so it makes sense to me in hindsight why I really, really wanted to interview other women. And I think for me, it was such this life changing experience in which I started to re-frame so much of who I was and really started to look at myself in such a different light. And I just wanted to talk to other women about that experience and find out if other women had, a similar experience or what was your experience if you were diagnosed, say, in university or even in childhood? It's mostly just about the diagnosis. Right. And I think I was just curious and wanted to make friends and I needed a platform, so I couldn't just call people out of nowhere and be like, hey, do you want to have a conversation with a random stranger? Tada, podcast! But never in my wildest dreams did I think anybody would listen to it.

Skye: Well, they do. Just to clarify, this is a very popular podcast.

Katy: Right. And I think that's what is so amazing to me is that these stories and the way that we're just sharing our experiences are so validating and such an important part of this diagnosis journey for us too.

Skye: Yeah, no, definitely. And it is interesting because when you know that you have ADHD and this happens a lot because we sometimes will work with people who are waiting for their diagnosis. I mean, first of all, it takes a long time to get that official diagnosis. So between figuring out that you probably have it, realizing other people have it, wanting to talk to them and connect with them, and wanting to learn everything about this thing, that's probably one of the first biggest hyper focuses that we know we have.

Katy: That's true. Right.

Skye: It makes sense that yeah. You want to just get as much information as possible. It was definitely I know, for a lot of people and for myself as well. It's huge. I mean, for me, it was like, okay, let's do a master's thesis alongside a PhD, on ADHD, basically. Yeah.

Katy: And it still, like, three years later, it still amazes me finding ways in which it has seeped into various parts of our life, the ways in which it shows up when you're not expecting it.

Skye: Yeah. No, 100%. I mean, I often work with clients who are like, I don't want to tell you this because I don't think it's related to ADHD, so it's probably not relevant. And I'm like, tell me. It probably is. We're having this conversation. You'd be surprised. Especially the emotional components. I think people just don't know about that, especially now. It's not in the DSM, and it's not really discussed as much. Maybe a bit more now, but there's lots of ways to experience ADHD besides just the ones that are on the diagnostic form that you fill out.

Katy: Right. Even sensory, I think sensory issues were a huge one for me to really connect the dots about when I thought about my emotional regulation. And one of the things that I really struggled with and I think a lot of us do, is this inexplicable anger and rage, as women, as mothers, as wives. So it's like, I never made any connection that any of that had to do with over-stimulation. And so that was a huge eye opener for me. I never thought about sensory issues. I didn't think I had—if you had asked me if I had sensory issues, I would have been like, no. And now I look at all of the ways that I do that I just never acknowledged.

Skye: Yeah. You're like, I just like my headphones.

Katy: Exactly right all the time.

Skye: I just wear them all the time!

Katy: And there's three T shirts that I wear out of the 20 that I have in my drawer, and, like—

Skye: Everyone does this, surely.

Katy: But that was so big too. I had no idea just how much I was operating in this state of overwhelm. And I think that's where there's, like, a lot of grief right around that diagnosis. Like, oh, I was really struggling, and I didn't realize it.

Skye: Definitely. I mean, you retrospectively go back at that point, and you have to, especially when you're diagnosed a bit later. I was diagnosed in my 30s. You were diagnosed in your 40s? There's a lot of time to go back through and people to be like, oh, that's why. Okay.

Katy: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of grief just around the life that could have lived. One of the questions I like to ask my guests is, looking back over your life, what are some of those moments where you realize the signs were there all along, but nobody knew what to look for? Because when, I went back and I looked at my report cards, I was crying. It was very emotional for me to think about that poor little girl who needed so much help, and nobody had the language for it.

Skye: And some of the signs are big signs. They're not small. Like, when you look back on them, you're like, Why? Somebody should have said something. I changed my degree a lot.

Katy: Right. That should be a definite tip-off.

Skye: That was a big sign. Yeah. So I wanted to talk to you, particularly I was sort of thinking about what skills I mean, you've got so many skills. But a particular one that I was thinking about because of the fact that you do have such a lively household and you are doing so much pursuing the Master of Science, continuing with the podcast. I really was personally, honestly, just very curious to know about your routines, because it's always really fascinating with ADHD, but when you start to increase the level of difficulty that you're experiencing, that can be tough as well. So, yeah, I just want to know what are the kind of ADHD routines you have that you found helpful over the last six months or a year?

Katy: Well, one of my I call them non-negotiables, when a routine kind of transfers over from wouldn't it be nice if I do that a lot? To yes, this doesn't not happen. And that's where I feel like once they really take that's, like, such a win, right. When it comes to consistency. And so I feel like, for me, the number one consistency routine is getting out in the morning and going for a brisk walk and elevating my heart rate. And so we live in the country, so we have—I don't know if you call them rail trails in New Zealand. They're basically the old railroad tracks where they pulled them up, and they're just these nature trails. We have them all over where I live, and they're really wonderful because it's just, you just go, they're flat. They go on forever. They're in the woods, and so my husband and I will do our morning walk, and, every day we do it together. So I think that helps it that we have each other to stay accountable to. It also serves not only a purpose of just getting out and getting my heart rate elevated, but it's a time for us to check in. We talk about who's driving who where and who's in charge of dinner. And spoiler alert, it's always him. It's never me. He always does dinner, but usually I'm like, what are we eating tonight? But we just checked in about kind of what we're doing and who's going to walk the dog that day and all of those things. So that is one of those routines that if we don't get out and do that, unless it's pouring rain, that has become a non negotiable because there's just so many boxes that it checks. And, I really appreciate that. And I feel like getting my heart rate elevated, even just a little bit—I don't think that exercise for somebody with ADHD has to involve high intensity, going to the gym, doing any sort of Peloton, I don't think it has to do with that. But I do feel like getting out and just breathing in some air and getting some sunshine is probably the number one part of my treatment plan, quote unquote.

Skye: Yeah, and the research would back you up on that. In terms of the support it does for memory and emotional regulation, it's so good, particularly if you're doing it with somebody else, because you've got that ability, like you said, to check in to discuss what's going on, to plan your day verbally. What time did you say that you were generally doing that in the morning? I'm just curious because it's something people always ask.

Katy: Well, and I do feel like we're in a very lucky position right now because we both work from home and my kids get on the bus at 07:00 A.m., so as soon as my kids get on the bus, we go out and walk at 07:00 A.m. before either of us start our day. And so it's early enough that we do have that window. And I know there were years when my kids were little where that never would have happened. And so back when that was the case, there was a lot of tag teaming. Who's going to take the kids? I'm going to do my walk. And that's when we would, like, listen to podcasts or listen to audiobooks and do it by ourselves. So I know we're in this really sweet spot right now with my kids, and even on the weekends we can go out before they even wake up. So I really do appreciate the fact that we do have a lot of freedoms and not everybody's schedule allows them—Mornings can be really chaotic, and so that's something I work on a lot with my clients, which is like, where do you fit in those non negotiables?

Skye: Definitely, like you said, it doesn't have to be the gym. It can be the gym if you want it to be. But sometimes I just say, like, did you want to walk outside and breathe some air just a little bit? Like something like that? Even that can be something. It doesn't have to be a long walk. But yeah, I agree. Having some kind of movement routine is so fundamental. I mean, it's hard to imagine now, knowing as much as I know, the idea of starting a day just kind of waking up and going to your computer with ADHD, that would be really tough.

Katy: I know, right? But I do kind of do it with my phone. I think a lot of us sort of get up and immediately our phones are out. I'm guilty of it and I've tried over and so I think yeah, it is any opportunities that we can intentionally unplug are great.

Skye: Yeah, definitely. I've used, an app called Freedom or one of those kinds of apps before to try and block out different parts of my phone. And it's usually like it becomes a game, or sort of like, well, I'm not going to check emails right now, but I'm going to check social media. Only the fun social media, not the stressful social media, which is different.

Skye: A lot of people experience this. It is funny how many people actually the first thing they'll say to me is, of course, I know I need to leave my phone and put it on the other side of my bed and start a meditation practice this morning. Like, I know that's what everyone has to do in the morning. I've got that, but I'm just not doing it. So let's figure out how. First thing I have to do a lot with clients is be like, okay, so that's a great neurotypical routine. it's not where we're at right now. Where are we going in terms of that? Let's think of an ADHD friendly version that maybe involves a bit of the phone because at this point, it's basically getting you out of bed or maybe a podcast version or something. So it is interesting how that phone idea you should never have your phone in the morning is helpful, but it's not necessarily a be-all end-all to a day. I mean, you're doing it, I'm doing it. We're both existing with ADHD and doing our best. Okay. So, yeah, in terms of the routines you have, I'm really curious to know which routines fell by the wayside, which routines didn't make it, and do you have any ideas why?

Katy: Speaking of morning meditation, I think that's a huge one for me, is there's so many things that we know are good for us and that we should do right? I mean, that's one of those struggles with executive functioning and the shoulds in our life. So one of the things I'm always trying to do is like, oh, it'd be so nice to just wake up and not grab my phone and do some yoga routines. And at the beginning of the year, I have one of my New Year's resolutions was to start gratitude journaling and I was going to come up with three things at the end of the day that I was grateful for and I think that made it maybe two or three days. And then I just forgot. And then my streak was broken and it just went out of my brain. But I had a little bit of a health scare. Not a little bit. It was really scary. At the beginning of the year, I started just having this vertigo. And I couldn't figure out what was going on. It was really debilitating. And so I started seeing all sorts of different specialists as to what was happening. Was it my job? My hearing was being affected. And so it turned out, no shocker. It was stress related. And that it was that I was holding all of this tension in my neck and my shoulders. And it had gotten so bad that I started to get vertigo. And so in addition to getting muscle relaxants, I was like, well, that's it. I'm going to fix this and going to throw everything I can at this, as we like to do. And so I was like, I'm going to do yoga every morning, and this is going to be my new lifestyle in 2023. It's going to be the year of self care. And I'm never going to let this happen to me ever again.

Skye: Yeah.

Katy: And so I started yoga every morning. And I was doing it, and it was great. And I felt so good. And I was just doing, like, ten minutes, but it was before I touched my phone, it was before my coffee. And every morning I was like, this is amazing. This is the new me. And, then as soon as I was healthy again and stopped having the vertigo and sort of felt like I was out of the woods, immediately stopped with the yoga.

Skye: That's so interesting.

Katy: And I just have to laugh, right?

Skye: Yeah.

Katy: Because when we have an immediate motivation, when we have a clear motivation to do something, we throw everything at it. But as soon as that motivation kind of wanes, it stops serving a purpose. And then I was like, all right.

Skye: Yeah. It is interesting you should say that because yeah, I think sometimes with clients and I don't know if you've had this similar experience, it's like, the first thing we need to do is figure out what is your motivation for this, because it can get lost. And so in your case, yeah, it's like you had the clear motivation. Not only that, but you also had the results. If I do this, it's going to change my experience of my day, which is huge. But, when that was gone and the motivation was gone, like you said, it's much harder. So sometimes with university, for example, there's the motivation, I want to pass this course, but three months in, it can get a bit fuzzy. Why am I taking this lab? Why am I doing this 5% paper? And so it's like we almost have to remind ourselves and clarify our priorities because it does come with that motivation.

Katy: Yeah. And similarly, I think we have a tendency to start big instead of starting small. Right. So it's like, this is going to be the year of self care. I'm going to go out and I'm going to buy new shoes and a new outfit and my self care outfit, and I'm going to sign up for this gym and I'm going to do all these classes. And then a week later, you're burnt out and broke.

Skye: It's so true. And that's why it's so good to have those flexible goals. Like, for you, you're like, I'm going to do movement in the morning. It could be walking, it might be yoga. but at least there's some kind of movement happening in the morning. And that allows you to feel less like you are failing on something. Because we can push ourselves and give ourselves quite a lot of things to do, especially in January.

Katy: Right. Yeah.

Skye: But I just want to say, by the way, I really appreciate you answering that question, because that's not an easy question to answer in terms of routines, because we all have those routines that have fallen by the wayside, but you have to kind of go in and be honest about that. So I appreciate you answering that question, by the way.

Katy: I was going to say I felt like I could have answered that question for days, thinking about all the different routines I've started and have fallen by the wayside, even just this year.

Skye: No, definitely, it is the thing that you mentioned. Like, I did yoga as well, and then that kind of fell off and then I started copilot because I, like everybody else, listens to, how to ADHD. And I tried that. And that's been working really great, actually, because somebody will message me and be like, hey, so you missed it. Do you want me to change it for you or make it easier? And I'm like, no, I can do it. I can do this.

Katy: Yeah. That is a great app in terms of just the right amount of accountability to another human.

Skye: Yeah, that accountability. It's amazing what it does. It just makes something a priority in a way that it's not otherwise. Yeah. So I guess how do you maintain routines when they feel boring? Because obviously you've got those routines that fall by the wayside, but there will be some routines that you have to do as part of your job, as part of your studies, as part of your kids. Is there anything that you do when you start to find a routine becoming a real drudge, essentially, or becoming very boring?

Katy: Yeah, I think there's a few things. One of my favorite things to do now, since my diagnosis, is to say who can I get to do this for me? Which was something I never really did without tons of guilt and shame. Right? I think there was always this part of me that spent so much time beating myself up that I should do this, I should do this, I should do this. And so the first thing I think is, okay, first of all, does this have to get done right? It's like, I acknowledge that it's boring, and I acknowledge that it's morally neutral, as Casey Davis has said, it's morally neutral that I have limitations around this. And so if I don't want to do it, if I'm having a struggle and I need support, can I get somebody else to do this for me? That's, like, the first thing I ask. And then I think, really, it's about, how can I make this interesting? And one of my favorite examples of making boring things interesting is the people who will make TikTok videos of timelapse of them cleaning their kitchens, and then they post a video, and then they're like watch me clean my kitchen in timelapse. And I'm sort of like, huh? Alright, I guess. It's kind of interesting to watch.

Skye: Yeah, I've been sucked in before.

Katy: Right? Like, they're really entertaining to watch. But at the same time, I'm also, like, kudos to you for figuring out a way to clean your kitchen, even though you had to turn it into a whole production. You had to set up your phone on a tripod. You had to do that, all of that stuff. You had to post it. You had to come up with a caption, like all of these extra things you had to do to get yourself to clean the kitchen, but you got yourself to clean the kitchen, and that's what's important. And so, for me, that's just such a perfect example of the accountability of having an audience and then also just making it fun and more interesting and creating a project out of having to do this thing, and then also feeling like there's some symbiotic relationship with your audience that they might actually like it, too.

Skye: Yeah, definitely. And it is motivating and gives people ideas. No, I think that's a great idea, and I think it's interesting you sort of touched on it, but I've been thinking about this for a while, the idea of adding complexity to something to make it more interesting. Because often we think about, and often rightly so, we think about, okay, this routine is boring. How can it make it easier? But if you have to do something, maybe it's about making it more complicated but more interesting.

Katy: Yeah. Or even I think that's where timers can really help, too. Right. Because it does complicate it to say, I have to do this as fast as possible. So that's just like adding an element of interesting. When I was a kid. I was not diagnosed as a kid, but it amazes me to think that I used to intuitively do this. But when I had to clean my room, I would pretend that I was an adult and that my bedroom was my apartment and that my parents had called me from the airport, and that, they were going to be there in half an hour. And I was like, oh no, I have to clean my whole apartment in half an hour. And I would set a timer. And now I look back through the lens of ADHD and I'm like, that was brilliant.

Skye: Yeah, that's amazing. That's brilliant. You could use that now. That's great.

Katy: Seriously. I find timers can be really helpful in the right scenario, or even just a gentler version of that. And just be like, look, I have a lot to do. I'm just going to do half an hour. And then either I'm done after half an hour or I'll have momentum and I'll keep going. But I'm going to promise to just do half an hour. That tends to work for me when it comes to the really boring household stuff.

Skye: Yeah, definitely. I think it is interesting that you sort of talk about that because I think timers are a complex conversation. A lot of people, we talk about the idea of having timers and whether there's too many timers in their lives and what that's going to look like. But you could race the microwave is something that I sometimes talk about. It doesn't have to be if you're somebody who doesn't want to use a timer, you could race something else. People talk about the idea of putting on a cup of tea and then cleaning the kitchen quickly.

Katy: I love that. It reminds me of waiting for microwave popcorn.

Skye: Yes.

Katy: It's one of those things that you have to stand and watch it and listen for the popping. And I always get distracted and I always wander off and I always end up burning the popcorn.

Skye: Yeah. Definitely. But yeah, exactly. So there's so many different ways to do it. But I do love that idea. And it does explain why so much cleaning gets done right before people come over. I mean, this is a human trait, but particularly with ADHD, we're like waiting for Wednesday afternoon when someone is coming.

Katy: I know, right? I always joke a great motivator to clean your living room is to invite the most judgmental friend over and just set a day. Invite them over for Saturday and then you know you'll clean.

Skye: Oh, yeah. Although, gosh, the most judgmental friend. I think I'd be like, let's go out, like halfway before. I don't know if I can take this. I say that because I have a one year old and he likes to take his sticky hands and put them everywhere. He's very cute and we love him, but there's definitely a lot more sticky hand prints than there used to be. So what would you say to other people who are listening to this, thinking about routines and thinking about starting a long project? Because a podcast, this is one of the reasons it's taken me a while to actually start one, is a big commitment in terms of consistency, in terms of routines. How do you manage that? And what would you say to other people, like myself, who are kind of starting those kinds of big projects but it might also be like a uni degree for a year, committing to that kind of thing?

Katy: It's interesting. I think one of the best pieces of advice I got from a business coach was to just pick one thing and all roads need to lead to that one thing and maybe it could be one thing each year. I'm prone to do like a theme each year and then if I want to start new projects because I have a tendency to get really excitable and then I'll spend 48 hours building a new website or accidentally starting merch or going on Etsy. And so rather than saying I can't do that, I bargain with myself where I'm like, I can do that, but it has to somehow feed into the original thing. I feel like that's how I've been able to kind of stay interested in the original project without abandoning it. But I also have to say with the podcast, I somehow knew intuitively that I was never going to be able to maintain a podcast where I had to come up with a topic every week and I had to research and just talk off the top of my head. I just knew that was never going to be sustainable for me. I knew that the most interesting thing for me was the conversation and the questions. And so I felt like I was only going to really stick with something that felt super easy and super interesting and so I was going to try to keep it as simple as possible so that I didn't get paralyzed by all of the making it too big too soon. And so I felt like I kind of did that with a lot of things in terms of like the logo or the quality of the microphone. If you listen to my first episodes, when they first came out, I was talking into my daughter's little tiny microphone. I had no idea what I was doing and I just sort of like learned along the way and I think that was really helpful that I had no expectations and I wouldn't say that was intentional, but I think it was really, really helpful. So I think it's been helpful for me to have that same attitude with creating a new community or any new projects or new courses or something rather than be like, I have to have this perfect thing before it's even out of the gates. I'm like, I'm just going to stumble out and we're going to see how it goes. All of the other stuff can be fixed later. That was a really long winded answer.

Skye: Well, I was just going to kind of, because I think there's about three things in there that were so useful. There was the idea of kind of picking one thing or a couple of things a year and kind of sticking to those, just starting a little bit. And there's a saying in business, if you're not ashamed of your first product, you launch too late. Which I think is a kind of way of thinking about just going in for it with the microphone you have, to kind of reduce the stress. You're not spending heaps of time on the prep so that by the time you're there, it's like this huge thing. And then also like going, okay, if you want to do this thing, how is it going to fit in with the goal that we have, which is the masters or the podcast? Would you say that's kind of?

Katy: Yeah, exactly. You said it much better than I did. Right. I think it's how do these connect? Do these connect in a fruitful way as opposed to just wandering off and abandoning ship?

Skye: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I tend to take the goals and put them on the computer, whatever the goal for this year is, and just kind of keep reminding myself that that's what we're doing. Because obviously with working memory and ADHD, it's surprising how easy it is to forget your goal for the year or to veer away from it.

Katy: Yeah, no, that's such a good point. It really is one of those things that we have to have written explicitly and come back to in a way that is meaningful because we do have a tendency to mentally wander off.

Skye: It's been known to happen. So I have some sort of just general ADHD, I say quick questions, but no pressure on the timing, that I wanted to ask you. I just think they're so interesting to ask anyone with ADHD, particularly someone who's been doing as many things as you have. So yeah, I wanted to know which professional achievement would you be the most proud of?

Katy: I feel like I should say my podcast, because I'm very grateful for the platform and I feel like it's brought a lot to me. It's just so fun. when people thank me for the podcast, I'm always sort of like, you're welcome? I don't feel like it's really something I've worked hard for. It feels so fun to me. It just feels like a wonderful thing that I'm sharing with people. I'm not doing it for anybody but me and so it feels very selfish in that way. But I will say that I recently enrolled in grad school, which for me never would have happened if it wasn't for my ADHD diagnosis. I genuinely thought I was a stupid person, to be blunt. I did poorly in university, I was so glad to be out of academia, and I just always had a view of myself as having difficulty in school. I just thought I had a learning disorder or something. Like there was always that part of me that felt like I was fooling everybody into thinking I was intelligent. I just secretly felt like I was dumb. I didn't do well on tests. So my diagnosis has really just had opened up so much insight into how I learn, how I am a voracious learner, and always have been. It's just classroom environments aren't necessarily very friendly to ADHD and why and what it's like to ask for support and all of that. So the fact that I even had the courage to apply to go back to school and got in, and pursuing this, I feel very proud of because I definitely never could have done this if it wasn't for this diagnosis.

Skye: No. That's so exciting. So you started already?

Katy: Yeah, I started this year as a non matriculated student and so I'm, starting full time in the fall. And so that'll be a three year program.

Skye: Oh, wow. Yeah, three year programs are rough in terms of doing something and focusing on it. So I think that yeah, it's really amazing. Are you focusing on ADHD?

Katy: I hope so. I'm trying to stay open. I really entered the program because I feel like there's just so many women out there who have asked me if I can recommend therapists who get ADHD, who get adult ADHD, or the adult diagnosis experience. I feel like there's such a crisis right now in terms of mental health counseling, especially people who understand neurodivergent thinking. And I just was sort of like, I really want to do this, and I really just want to increase this number, even if by one. And so I was like, just give me three years, I'll do it really quick. In the beginning, it was sort of a means to the end where I was like, how am I going to last three years? This is going to be so difficult. I want this right now. But since I've been taking the classes, I realized that I think it'll be a lot easier to take it slow because I'm still doing what I love to do. It's just enhancing my knowledge and my understanding and it's opening up a lot of opportunities to work with, I kind of had this idea that I just wanted to work with carbon copies of myself, and now I'm opening up to a lot of like there's so much undiagnosed ADHD in say, eating disorder clinics, or in rehab clinics right? Or even in the prison system. I'm very excited about all of the ways in which knowledge about ADHD and neurodivergency can really help in more systemic ways. So I'm excited, but I'm also terrified because I don't know what the future holds for me. I'm trying to be very open minded about what this will entail.

Skye: It's interesting, university is. There's a university that you think you're doing and there's the university that you're actually in when it comes to ADHD and social supports and strategies. I work with a lot of academics, so this is a conversation we have all the time. There's a lot of academics with ADHD out there who, are like, figuring out a way. I think it's the same with teaching, right? How do I make the system fit me a bit better? And luckily, it is becoming more and more open now, which is also amazing.

Katy: Well, and I think also, yeah, one of the things that has been immensely helpful already is just coming at this realizing that I'm worthy of support and accommodations and that viewing ADHD as a disability has been very helpful in the academic environment where I immediately got in touch with my Disability Resources Center. They've been amazing. They've been helpful with accommodation, they speak my language. And so it's never been, I'm refusing to go through it this time around thinking I can figure this out on my own or I'm going to leave this all the last minute and just kind of throw it together. I've been really intentional about getting support systems in place, in a way that's been difficult. But also I think it's difficult sometimes to think of yourself as having a disability all of a sudden, because there's a lot of kind of shame and confusion around that.

Skye: Yeah, but that's so awesome. And so, I think, empowering for other people as well who are going to listen to that and be like, right, that's it, I'm going to the disability services.

Katy: Oh my goodness, they're the best.

Skye: I got diagnosed initially from, that was where I found out. So, big shout out to them. Is there a professional failure that you have that sort of lingers or that you remember? And this is a tough question, so feel free to answer with whatever feels comfortable.

Katy: I felt a lot of personal failure around just the experience of stress and burnout that I had earlier this year because I thought I knew what burnout looked like. I've worked with so many clients who are working through burnout. I feel like I'm a health coach, I'm a yoga instructor. I feel like I should know better. There's the should, right?

Skye: Yeah.

Katy: And I feel like I should have it all figured out. Meanwhile, it's like my husband hasn't been to the doctor in like 15 years. He doesn't care. I feel like I'm the one who is constantly tuned into wellness. And so the fact that I still had this extreme physical reaction to stress and burnout that really stopped me in my tracks was just like, really? I just felt like, come on, are you ever going to learn your lesson? Like I was really down on myself, which is like the last thing you should be doing when you are experiencing burnout.

Skye: Probably not. Yes.

Katy: Right?

Skye: But understandable.

Katy: Right. Like I did not have a lot of grace with myself initially because I felt like, this is what you do for a living, I should know better. And so I really felt like that was humbling to have to experience that. But also I think a lot of my stress and burnout came from all the things I wanted to do. Right? And that was really interesting too, which was like, I have to learn how to say no and delegate because I wanted to do all the things. And that's, I think, something that might be unique to ADHD burnout, which is just this overwhelming desire to do everything and it's not like, just excitability. And I just was at this place where I just had so many projects and was going to do them all and I just didn't know how to pace myself and I didn't know how to say no. It's humbling because you sort of think of burnout as being like not wanting to do things.

Skye: Yeah.

Katy: It was mostly like I had just, I don't even know if it's burnout actually. I feel like it's more like just driving yourself into the ground. I feel like a picture of like Bugs Bunny or the Road Runner right, with his legs going. That's kind of how I felt.

Skye: Yeah, no, definitely. And it's so interesting you should say that because we often talk about the idea of boundaries and burnout, like the idea that boundaries can affect the likelihood of burnout. And we often talk about boundaries in terms of the workplace, but sometimes, especially with ADHD, it's about having boundaries with yourself as well, giving yourself a sort of, like you do now. You're like, okay, this is what we're doing and if we're doing anything else, it has to fit into this. That's my boundary.

Katy: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like learning to say no has actually allowed me to do a lot more. I feel more productive the more I say no. Which, doesn't make any logical sense to me. But I feel like I hear that from a lot of business entrepreneurial gurus and it wasn't something I really could internalize until I had to until I had to start outsourcing and hiring more assistants and not doing everything myself. And then I was like, oh, this is like getting a little addictive saying no. This is great.

Skye: Like, what else? Let's think of something.

Katy: What else can I get someone else to do?

Skye: So interesting. Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. Yeah. So if you had an ADHD Life motto, and I think we've talked about this a little bit on your podcast as well, so I'm excited to ask you, what would it be?

Katy: One of the ones I come back to a lot is the term this is information. and I find that really looking at anything that isn't working or anything that has sort of gone is frustrating. And saying, this is information, what are we learning from this? What would we do differently? Moving out of a state of emotion, which is, what's wrong with me? I failed. Or I'm so terrible. All of those emotional reactions. The term this is information kind of snaps me back into a more logical, almost like, anthropological way of looking at a situation where I can sort of take some distance and be like, okay, what have we learned? Where was the breakdown? Where was the chink in the armor? And I think that can be so important for us when we have a tendency to look at a lot of struggles as though they're character flaws. Right? And I think we especially have a tendency to say, like, I'm the problem. What's wrong? What's wrong with me that I can't figure this out? And, so I feel like the term this is information is one of those things that always comes back to me where, I'm just like, alright, yeah, okay. This is just, something's not working. We have to figure this out. I'm not the problem.

Skye: That's an excellent way of thinking about it. You're kind of stepping back and going, hm. So, Katy, what did you do this morning? What is going on here? Let's have a look. You're sort of being your own therapist for the future.

Katy: Let's sort through all of this clutter right now. Yeah, absolutely.

Skye: No, that's great. I love that. Yeah. Awesome. Well, we've come to the end of our time, but thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and sharing all your ADHD skills so generously here today. I'm sure people will find it so helpful. But where can people find more about you and what you do?

Katy: Well, the best place to go is womenandadhd.com, and that's the website. So Women and ADHD is the podcast. We also have an online virtual community where, women from all over the world and they get together in the community. We have monthly experts that come and talk about topics over zoom, and we have virtual meetups. And so that's been really lovely. I'm on Instagram as KatyWeber.ADHD and WomeninADHDPodcast. But I think that you'll find all roads lead out from the website, so that's probably the best place to start.

Skye: Definitely. And I love your Instagram, by the way. Your Katy Instagram. I look at that all the time. So great.

Katy: I have a love hate relationship with Instagram.

Skye: Yeah, I think we all do. It's like, the beginning of the podcast we talked about it. We talked about it as well, so yeah, definitely. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, and thanks for being here.

Skye: Thanks for listening. If you'd like to reach out or connect with us, you can leave us a message at admin@unconventionalorganisation.com.

Sarah: You can also find out more about our ADHD coaching organisation, read our free articles, or sign up to our online courses at unconventionalorganisation.com. That's organisation with a Z or an S, they both will get you there.

Skye: If you'd like to learn more about what we discussed here today, or you want to read the transcript, you can find that at our Show Notes page at unconventionalorganisation.com.

Sarah: If you've enjoyed this podcast and think someone else might find the strategies and stories helpful, the best thing you can do is share episodes using the Share button in the podcast player, or leave a five star review on Apple or Spotify or your podcast player of choice, letting them know why you've benefited from this podcast.

Skye: Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you back in the ADHD Lab next week.