ADHD burnout, balance and realistic expectations with Rosie Turner

Hi, we are the ADHD Skills Lab podcast. My name is Skye. And my name is Sarah. And we will be your hosts, chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills and working through struggles in their lives. You might know us from Unconventional Organization, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along and we're going to chat through it together. 

This week we have Rosie Turner with us. Rosie is an ADHD coach, a Pilates and Yoga coach, and the host of the ADHD Untangled podcast, which is really awesome. So welcome, Rosie. It's really great to have you on our podcast. Thank you. I am so happy to be here. I feel very grateful. Thank you. Yes. So where are you based? I am based in London, Southeast London, if anyone listening knows London. And I've just moved actually, but still to a similar area. I've been in South London majority of my life, apart from I had a short period for just under a year in Amsterdam. So I've always been here. I've heard a lot about London for those of you who don't know with the time zones, we're recording this, my evening and Rosie's morning. So if you do hear a baby or anything in the background, that's my baby. I apologize. We're going to do the best we can. Yeah, but so you moved a little bit and I know we postponed the podcast to do that move. So take me through how was that? I know that's been a bit of a interesting, it's interesting with ADHD moving. Yeah, it's been very interesting because, you know, the last few years I've been a bit unsettled anyway, because I went through a breakup. As usual, you know, when you own a house together, there's always complications when stuff's going to finalize. So I've been sort of living between my dad's and then back at the house and then at one point on a sofa and it was just all very unsettling. And then I finally found a wonderful place with a lovely lady to set myself up for about at least a year now. But I really found it difficult because what I didn't realize is obviously I'm trying to do all the, you know, start this podcast, become an ADHD coach and I'm loving it and it's just so exciting and so amazing. What I really noticed and I've been learning about it when I was training as a coach is when your foundations are a bit shaky, you know, those foundational needs, especially with ADHD and your routine has to keep changing slightly, it really does emphasize those struggles a little bit and those traits come out a lot more. I've been very aware of noticing I'm a bit more overwhelmed than usual or I'm a bit more unorganized than I usually would be. So, you know, it was a lot of that. But I've learned so many tools along the way, like knowing when to delegate, which I did not do before. That's interesting. So how did that, how did that go for the move? Amazing. Like, so basically I knew I had this date where I was going to move. I'd just done a retreat. I was just going on retreat. Sorry. So I was like, right. I literally have a day to get everything over. Oh my gosh. I can't afford to waste any time the next day not working. So it sort of needs to be set up to a point where. I can sort of get up and go to work the next day. So I just made a little list of what needed to be done. How could I get people to help me? So I had a few local friends come over the day before and help me just pack stuff up, which I would never have done before. That's interesting. Why would you never have done that before? I've always been one of those people that I just do things myself. I don't know if it was usually maybe impatient or maybe there's a bit of perfectionism going on there. But I always used to just get up and... do it all myself and feel like that's what I was meant to do, I suppose. It's interesting you should say that because sometimes I hear people talk about the idea of doing it all myself and there's a little bit of like, I don't want you to necessarily see that I need help because maybe we don't want to admit that we need help because is it normal help or is it neurodiverse? You know what I mean? Like it's sort of you're showing somebody your space and you're showing somebody that you need help. We can always independence sometimes as a way of being like, no, I find I've got this. And they just quietly burn out. I actually think when you're saying that though, I wouldn't have asked for help before I knew I had ADHD because one, I would just think, Oh, I've just got to do this. Like I wouldn't have known beforehand that I was going to struggle on the day. Like, you know, I probably wouldn't have become aware that was going to happen. I wasn't as aware of the certain things that, you know, stress me out and why I get stressed. So I think having the diagnosis actually really helped me implement that ability to delegate because I now am so much more aware of the things that are going to stress me out in the day, the things that are going to take longer for me and I'm going to struggle with. So beforehand, I can actually plan ahead and go, right, what will I need help with? And it takes practice. It's not that easy because then you learn something new on the day as well. You're like, oh, that's another thing I might need help with. But yeah, I think that's helped. I think the ADHD really helped with the move in that way, but still I felt, I don't know about you, but I will start feeling before bed, I'll talk about this a bit later, but my morning routine is like everything. So when I go into a new space or I'm traveling or I'm somewhere else, I'm always like, right, how am I going to get some form of morning routine into my? Yeah. I just felt a bit unsettled, but I think that's quite normal, you know. Yeah, no, definitely normal. And it's, it's really good. Like you said, to talk about those strategies for how to deal with it, but also to know that it's a real thing. Like you said, before you got diagnosed, you might not have even realized that that's something that's going to affect you, but yeah, you're, you're changing all of your routines, you're taking it next year. If you want to talk about transition times, everything has an extra transition because it's all in a different place. It does. And that's the thing I'm still having days like that going. where's this and this place and I'm like, Oh no, I'm behind time. Transitions are the hardest thing for me. I know they are for so many, but I now have to block them out because I'm like, I know I'm going to need transition time. So, yeah, definitely. So tell us a little bit about your ADHD journey for yourself. Were you late diagnosed? What did it look like? Yeah, I was late diagnosed. However, like throughout my life, I mean, I was married to someone who had ADHD and everyone used to comment on his ADHD. And that was when people still just were, oh, it's because he's hyperactive and he's quite energetic. Then people would say to me, oh, I think you've got it as well. You've got ADHD, but it was more as a joke and I didn't really know what it meant. So I never really done anything with that. I always knew I was very hyperactive and impulsive and just different to people that I was around at the time. But it wasn't until... I'd been doing yoga for a long time and things started to really shift for me and I was able to regulate my emotions a lot more, had tools to do that. I found myself focusing a lot more and the main thing I noticed, I was more aware of what was coming up for me and more about who I was and what I wanted. What I was noticing was, is I still was misplacing things all the time. I was still struggling with some real highs and lows. That executive functioning. Yeah, the executive functioning. And when I'm misplacing things, like honestly, it's like 10 times a day. And I was like, this is not normal, like leaving, leaving Hobbs on. And I used to blame that on being hung over all the time. Cause I had quite a bad relationship with alcohol years ago. And cause I wasn't doing that anymore. And that was still happening. I was like, is something going on in my brain? Because I don't understand it. And I went for like brain scans for like thinking I'd like. some brain tumor. That's interesting. That must have been really scary. It was because they did, they found like a shadow in. So it went on for quite a few months of not actually knowing if there was something. I mean, thank God there wasn't, but it was that bad that I wasn't able to do these things that I felt the need to sort of figure out what it was. And a bit of a safety thing, because you know, leaving Hobbs on like my partner at the time was like, I can't keep worrying that you're going to keep doing this. Like what's going on? Yeah. So anyway. That's a really good point. I started the process and it was just before lockdown. You know, I just got a little form from the GP and they said, oh yeah, we think you've got it, but you're going to have to go for a process. COVID hit and I never heard anything. And I think that was like 18 months or something. And then I finally got a letter and an appointment online. Did you get an appointment with the NHS or? Yeah, it was through the NHS, but they refer you to a, you know, a specialist department. Like they're like third party, basically. Yeah, yeah. So I had that meeting online. It was just one meeting with someone online for about an hour and a bit. And he was like, okay, yeah, you've got ADHD. But he was very like resistant to it. I remember a bit like, why do you want this diagnosis? Like, what does it mean to you? And at the time I didn't really know what it means. I didn't have the research like what I have now. You don't want to start turning hubs off. Yeah. And I was just like, I just want to know why I do the things I do, because if there is something I can do about it, then you know, I'd like to have the option. Yeah. Anyway, the story gets worse is in a sense that I was living in Amsterdam at the time, again, I think, cause I didn't realize the importance of what could change for me having that diagnosis. I went back to Amsterdam and they give you a two week deadline to send like a blood pressure monitor. And. I went off to Amsterdam and obviously didn't know about the deadline and missed it. And they discharged me and I hadn't even known. And I wasn't even looking for medication because I didn't even take paracetamols at the time. Like I was very, you know, I didn't like the full at the time of medication. So I got discharged. In the meantime, I've been researching what ADHD means and I'm like, Oh my God, this is so much more than just misplacing things. It's the RSD. It's the reason why I haven't struggled with corporate work. It's the reason why my relationships have been like they've had. Yeah. So the more I dug deeper, I was like, I need to get back on this list. And I, you know, wrote to them and said, they said, Oh, it'll be quicker because you've already been diagnosed. And I still haven't heard. So I had to go private. Oh really? Yeah. I had to go private because it would, I'd never heard that. And the private experience for me was very in depth. I was lucky enough to be covered up to the diagnosis through an insurance. Yeah. He was like someone who has dealt with ADHD for 20 years. That's all he does. And he has a really holistic approach to it. So he wanted interviews with my family. I think I had to do like free in-depth interviews myself. And you'd already done the brain scan. So, and I'd already done the brain scan. So, you know. Yeah, it was a really full on experience, which I liked though, because he just knew his stuff and he generally cared and saw really good results from diagnosis. And he really sees the positives in ADHD as well, which I really liked as a doctor. That's awesome. Yeah. So eventually, you know, I think it was like, but it was only this year that I've eventually got another official certificate from ADHD. Wow. I've been diagnosed twice. It's a long process. Yeah. So in terms of that, you know, I'm very curious. You mentioned that this person was very specific and had a lot of depth. Did they provide any kind of extra resources for you once you got diagnosed? Yeah. He was really great. He like offered me books even throughout the process before it even ended. He was like, this is a really good book for you. And yeah. You know, there's some papers on this and there's that, and he's really interested in the fact that I had a podcast. So did you have the ADHD podcast at that point? Yeah. Cause I've been diagnosed once before because I've been diagnosed already. And then it was just through my own research that I realized that, well, there must be so many people going through this. And I basically listened to a TED talk going to the Alps just after my first diagnosis, after being discharged, even though I had a certificate, but. They were telling me it wasn't valid. And I heard a Ted talk and her name was Jessica. And she's from the States. I can't remember her second name. Jessica McCabb. I know her. Yeah. Oh my God, do you cause she changed my life. I really, I watched all her videos when I first got diagnosed as well. That was the first set of videos I watched. Shout out to her. We'll put her in the show notes. Yes, please. Because honestly, I don't know. I just stuck it on, on the way to the airport and I heard her Ted talk and I started sobbing and I was like, this is the real deal. Yeah. This is really impacting people's lives. And it's that feeling of really wanting to do so many things with your life and show up in your life the way you really want to and not being able to. And it's just crippling. And that was the moment I was like, I want to help and I want to support others. Definitely. That's awesome. And you're not the first person to tell me that they started ADHD podcast prior to their ADHD diagnosis. So. Yeah. For my second diagnosis. Yeah, your second diagnosis, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a common thing where you're like, I'm learning all this information and then I just want to share it and I want to talk to people and connect with people about it. And I think it was because as well, like my first diagnosis was obviously valid for me, but then I started talking to people and listening to podcasts about the medication. And so when I heard that maybe medication really is a life-changing thing for some people, I was like, I don't want to be discharged now. I want to have that option because I'm hearing all these amazing stories. And what if I don't have the option to that because my certificate that I've got will never allow me, I'd have to start again if I want treatment basically. So that's why I went for the second one. Oh, that's so interesting. That's yeah. Thanks for telling us that. And obviously, you know, I know in the UK at the moment, there's a bit of controversy about ADHD diagnosis. So it's... It's really great to hear your story and just add it to the stories about people who've got one and what that process has been good and bad. Yeah. And it's worth noting actually that I know that program with the BBC was showing a lot of people take advantage of those of ADHD to get private diagnosis and that is, you know, most definitely happening. But the reason things like that are happening is because at the moment people are waiting three years on average. to get an ADHD diagnosis now. Yeah, it's crazy. It's a long time to wait when you're worried about keeping the hub off, when you've got these issues. Yeah. It was mental health around that. I'll get it all the time. People write into me saying, and we are known for having, we don't trust ourselves. So I have so many people coming to me, clients, and listening to the podcast who are like, I really think I've got it, but because I can't get a diagnosis, I'm doubting myself, do I even have it? And I think to be in that limbo state is just really not a nice place to be. So not at all. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So in terms of what you do now, as I mentioned at the top, you've worked as a yoga instructor, you work as a podcaster and up until very recently, you were also an executive assistant. That is a lot to juggle with ADHD and ADHD can kind of help with that, but also make it harder. So what are the strategies that you've found most helpful in these different roles? It's been learning along the way definitely and still a learning process because my schedule is changing still because I'm getting new qualifications and it's a constantly changing schedule at the moment. But I think going back to a little bit of what I said earlier is that awareness of, you know, how my ADHD shows up. So the transition times that you mentioned, also knowing that my energy, like if I'm working late one night teaching. Yeah. Really don't schedule something important in the morning really early or just knowing myself and putting in my diary, just blockers. And what I'm trying to do at the moment I'm working with is consolidating days. Cause I've noticed that I'd rather have these days teaching, these days on the podcast and these days coaching. So it's just really just that awareness that's been a really big tool and the power of the pause, which I always talk about, it's just I need to do an audit on my schedule or how my work, all these different projects I've got going on. If I want to thrive in them, I've got to do regular audits on what I'm spending my time on and where I'm struggling. It's so interesting you should say that actually, because you're totally right. I've also recently shifted in the last few months over to have days that are coaching days and days that are at home. in my comfy clothes, working on, you know, behind the scenes stuff. And it's been a huge game changer in terms of focus and energy. Definitely. Because there's often days if like yourself, you would go to travel to somewhere you have to be, and then you want to come back and coach. Actually, you know what, you find it hard to transition back and focus. And yeah, I think that's been a big tool of mine. So scheduling my diary in that way and having that awareness and doing audits. I've also... again with coming to the awareness is trying not to take on too much in a sense that I've got a lot already. Yeah. But trying to set realistic expectations on myself about where I can get to in what time. That's hard. That's the easiest thing I've done. Yeah. It is. It's really hard. But I think what comes of it is sometimes I will say, right, you know what, instead of keep writing your to-do list every day, next to my to-do list. I'm going to write what you've accomplished lists. Right. Yeah. Because. Yeah. I think those can be really powerful. Yeah. Because when I feel like, Oh, I'm not getting to a certain point or I really want to do all these amazing things. It helps me gain a bit of perspective about, you know what? You started a podcast in January. You've got this many guests or whatever. I've got that list that will always, I don't know, it just helps me focus on the positives and make me realize that. you may not be doing every single thing that you want to do this week, but you're doing enough. And it's working out what is good enough and not perfection, because perfection is the fastest route to misery. And I think we're very prone to it. And burnout, exactly. And I think having that deeper why helps me now try and say no and be more realistic is because I now start to think of the people I'm serving. And I think, will these people want this version of Rosie who's burnt out and can't show up for them and has to let them down? Or will these people want Rosie who has had time to prep, showing up as the best version of her and being able to be fully present with them? So if I think about it not just being about me and about them, I think that really helps me say no and try and create a bit more balance. I'm not saying it's perfect, it's definitely not. But in those moments when I'm about to make a decision on something or set myself a really big goal, I think about them and not me and that really helps me. Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. I think especially because like you're saying, it's like, who are you doing these things, especially because a lot of the things that take up our energy are what you're doing, the things that... demand energy with others. You're working as an instructor, you're helping people there as a coach, even as an executive assistant, that's a lot of energy helping other people. So it is really helpful to think about it in terms of who you want to be for them as well as who you want to be for yourself. I love that. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's quite good for people when you're feeling a bit like you've got procrastination sometimes or overwhelmed. I sometimes think what keeps me going as well on my hardest days is when your goal and your dreams are not just about you. Cause I think you're more likely to like give up on stuff. Yeah. Cause you're just like, no one else, no one else is worried about this except for me. Having a more meaningful why is always a really good place to be if you can. Like that is what you're absolutely right. What you're doing, it's cool because you, there's plenty of meaning to be had. Yes. Definitely. Which is so great. And speaking of, yeah, I know I was just thinking about that. I love what I do because it is so intrinsically meaningful. So you do a lot of exercise and movement as part of your work. And we know from ADHD research, this can be a really helpful way to reduce some ADHD symptoms, such as working memory, support, working memory, functioning, support overall mental health. Is this something that you experienced yourself doing a lot of movement as part of your routines? Oh yeah. I mean, movement, firstly, saved my life. And secondly, if I don't move in the morning in some way, whether that's a walk, Pilates, yoga, whatever it is, I won't function or show up that day in the way I can and I can't focus the same way I can if I've moved, I can't manage my emotional dysregulation. I'm less reactive to things, you know, even. my RSD since exercising. I know this sounds unrelated, but it's so related for me because I found a bit of inner peace through movement. So I'm not as reactive to things and I'm more aware when I'm overthinking something that's a bit unnecessary. I don't think that's the right word, but what I'm thinking is it's actually Rosie, do they really think that? Are you really about to be rejected or are you just overthinking? So it's helped with that. The initial thing that happened was I all of a sudden, without knowing, had given myself a healthier dopamine hit than the drink and the partying. So my whole lifestyle changed because I was obviously getting a dopamine hit from somewhere else. So what made you get into movement then? Was it that you were doing all of those things and then you also decided to start doing yoga or some other kind of exercise? Yeah. So what I was going through, divorce was just about to do and we was on a make or break holiday and I was at really probably one of my lowest points in my life. I was basically drinking most days, partying and then spending two days really depressed on the sofa and not wanting to see anyone. And I went in this cycle for a really long time. I also like lost a friend to mental health during that time. And on this make or break on the beach and just thought, I need something. And this seems like the thing to go and do. And I spent 10 days sober, which for me at that time was like incredible, going to this yoga every single morning while on this make or break holiday, reading a meditation book, like a very practical small one, practicing the power of now. Oh yeah. I think I've heard of that. Yeah. A carto- a carto- Yeah. But it all seemed to connect and I don't know how it did, because normally my brain was too chaotic for anything like that. And something changed. And I just kept this morning routine up when I got home, and then it all started to filter into my life off the map. And you know what we're like with ADHD, it was only eight months into my yoga that I was like, right, I'm going to India and I'm going to learn to be a yoga teacher. I mean, that's a pretty reasonable length of time. Yeah. Two weeks notice, I think I gave everyone was like, I'm going in two weeks. I've just decided actually, I'm going to go to India on my own and do this. So then that was my hyper focus and my dopamine hit. And yeah, that's why I always say it saved my life. I really do believe that. I believe without it, I wouldn't have continued. definitely wouldn't have been able to be aware of my ADHD without pausing and slowing down with exercise. Yeah. Well, I mean, there are screeds and screeds of articles on the benefits of exercise and a number on ADHD and emotions, but that's one of the most powerful things I've ever heard I think when it comes to the benefits of exercise. Yeah. And I think what's worth noting for ADHD is that I hear a lot from my clients, they struggle to get into something. and keep it up. So they're always like, how have you got morning routine? And I think what it is, is it's, we put a pressure on ourselves to see exercise as something that's a punishment, right? And, oh, I might, I've got to go to the gym and sign up to do loads of intense hit classes or whatever it is. And I think maybe the reason that I continued with mine is because I found something I loved. I wasn't good at it. I was not good at it. I couldn't even hold a downward dog. There was something about trying to get upside down that was challenging. There was something about it. It was so much more fun than being at the gym. And I think finding something you enjoy knowing that it can change over time, because we like to change things up, but find movement. That's fun. I think is so important for someone with ADHD and starting small. Just don't overdo it and think, Oh, I'm going to go every single day. And. My whole life is going to change. Start small, follow the things that make you feel good first, and then see where it goes. And if you fall off and you have a bad day, then that's okay. You just do... Yeah, exactly. I always say just turn yourself upside down by what I mean is like do one downward dog and be like, that's me done for the day. It's the best medicine ever. Just get upside down. Even if you end up falling over when you're doing it. I say to people, you know, you need to take a few descending crows to get into the groove a bit. But yeah, it's so true and it's like knowing that maybe we need to re-sparkle-ize it at times if we've lost interest or, you know, that's fine. Yeah. There's no pressure. Don't put pressure on it. Yeah, definitely. 

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One of the other things that I really want to talk to you about was that You mentioned that you've run yoga retreats as well as doing the podcasts. And I really wanted to know what that's like with ADHD because that is a big complex beast of a thing that I actually find quite intimidating and imagining doing it. So how did you approach that? How did you break that down? Well, I actually come from an events background. So I studied events at uni, but I didn't take much notice because it wasn't very practical. But from a very young age, I was taking on work experience in media. And when I found out that events was a career, I was like, oh, wow, I love this. And if you think about it for ADHD is like, yes, it feels like a big beast, but it's like deadlines on the spot. Like, oh my God, that dopamine hit on the day. And you know, you see it all come to life. And it's like, well, I just got a massive hit from that when I was younger. Yeah. For us, it's the starting point, right? So basically just surrounding myself in an events team from when I was younger, I realized that things need to be broken down. And I think again, having meaning towards the event, like the retreat, it's meaningful to me, it's of interest to me. So my ADHD brain will sit and focus on what needs to be done. And again, I just try and start small and think, what are the three big things I need to do first? So I need a date. I need a day in a venue. So I get that done. Once I've got that, that's almost my deadline. So once I see that date and I'm like, right, so I want to give people a year to be able to book. And then I'm able to break it all down. But again, it's not perfect. Like I just run one recently and realized I haven't got the capacity to be writing back to people all day, every day about their questions. I had to hire someone for that time to help me with a bit of, um, Delegating. Delegate. Yeah. I exactly, and I had to because it was almost impossible. I was moving. I was just doing all these things. So that's really made a difference this time around. But yeah, I think it's just like, I enjoy the buzz of it so much. I give myself that deadline by planning ahead the date and then knowing that, right, that has to be done because people are booked now and people are coming, Rosie. So you need to get up to it. I've always found that with the big stuff, like podcasts, events, I can go and do these big things. And then it's the smaller things day to day are my biggest struggles. That's so interesting. We've talked about it on a previous podcast, the idea that with ADHD, hard things are easy and easy things are hard. And that can be how it feels. It does. And then you actually think, it was earlier I was doing, I was like, I've lost this, I've lost my headphones. And I'm like, Rosie, how? You start to notice those negative thoughts again. And I'm like, no, remember who you are. It's all these small things, but yet you've just finished a massive retreat with like 14 people. And you're like, but how did I do that? If I can't even find my headphones and I've lost my bank card again. And I'm like, you know, how did I manage to do that? Seriously, it's so common. I feel like it's one of the things that keeps people with ADHD maybe a bit more of the imposter syndrome, but also just, yeah. Very relatable. We're like, no, I've lost something today, but I did do this. Yeah. I think it comes back to again, that being ignited and having meaning. I really believe, I don't know this for certain if any science proves this, but from what I see, if we have meaning and interest in something, we will make it happen. And I think the problem is day to day, these smaller things, I know they're important. I'm not saying they're not. But. they don't give us that same dopamine hit and they don't spark our brain in the same way. So we don't really care enough where the headphones are or the money in the bank to be able to get it out. I just don't think it's exciting for us. So that's where the problem is now, I think. Yeah, I think it's true. And there is some research to indicate, we were talking about it a couple of weeks ago, that people with ADHD, we really motivated by mastery, like trying to master something. rather than kind of like achieving a certain grade or something like that. That idea of mastery. Yeah. Is it true? Because you see us as well. Like, I don't know about you, if you've experienced this in your life or with clients or anything, but I won't just do one yoga teach training. I did like loads because I wanted to do like, you know, it's not like, oh, that's enough. You can now teach. It's like, no, I want to have it all. I want to know it all. But until the next thing, I think eventually you do find something that sparks you enough. At least that's been my experience and it sounds like that's been yours as well. Yeah. No, that's so cool. I did have another question about the retreats, which was, well, you said two. One is, how do you timeline for something that's a year away? Does it kind of go, okay, I've booked this, I've booked this, people are coming. Oh, now I have to do this. Is that kind of how it works? Yes, I think it is. It's set in that day a year ahead. For me, this is what's worked in the past. So I'm just reverting back to what I've done. It's having that day. So basically, as soon as I get a spark of an idea, normally on my walk, I'm like, right, that's a great retreat venue. I visualized my first retreat at this certain venue on my walk for about a year, like every day. Wow. And when that sparks, as soon as I've got that, I will go and... get back to my desk, so that's when I'm most motivated, and email a venue to see if that venue that I want is available. And if I can get that, if it's done, and I'm excited by the venue, and I'm like, yes, it's coming to life, then for me, as soon as I've done that, I will just market it, and once it's out there, then I'll go project plan, right, what do I need to go and do? Book all the big things. It's normally, I normally struggle the most, I would admit, just before, because it's those smaller little things. Yeah, that was my next question. Was that, how do you deal with those like endless decision making that can come right at the end of that? Yeah. The most overwhelmed I get is just before always because it's the little details of, and it's not to do with the actual running of the retreat and how it'll work each day because of content I love and all that, but it's more people's flight details, like do I know everyone's details? Have I double checked everyone's dietary requirements? Have I, you know, got back to everyone's emails last minute and the transfers and they're the bits that before a retreat I find very difficult. And that's why I said this time around, I had someone help me on site and just before with a few emails, because I knew I couldn't give them what they needed. And then it allowed me to enjoy creating the content before show up each day on the map and I was able to give so much more this time. Like I gave coaching topics and themes every day prompts because that other little detail stuff on the day that I know that is not my biggest strength. Yeah. I knew was being covered by someone, the small logistics, I would say around the retreat and not so much to do with the retreat, you know, and that. sometimes in the early days would cripple me and it would even affect the way that I would teach because I'd be coming from a place of complete and stress that I haven't done that. Yeah, I can imagine you're sort of doing some move and you're thinking, did I remember that? Did I remember that? Yeah, exactly. And I will say that still the thing that I'm working on is a bit of RSD imperfectionism mixed into one is even after a retreat or after every class I teach, I will still go, was that good enough? Was that good enough? And I am constantly trying the whole time to make it even better and ask him, was that okay? Was that okay? Did you like it? Are you enjoying this? You know, I'm very like that still. And then I get my feedback in and I'm like, Oh my God, some magical things happen to people on retreat and I'm always blown away and emotional after, but I always doubt myself during the process still. It's still something I do every single time. Yeah. That's so interesting and useful because. You know, not all of us are planning yoga retreats, but there's always like, there's weddings and there's big birthdays and it's a very similar process. And I think it's interesting that you talk about this idea because I've started to notice this with a lot of my clients and with myself as well of booking something and then going, okay, now I have the dopamine for this thing. Yeah. Whereas it was just so interesting, but I think it's an ADHD strategy. Like if you were neurotypical. You would say, make everything, make all the content, make sure it's all perfect and then book it. And with ADHD, we're like, I will never make the content until I've booked it. And also if you start like that as an ADHD, I think, I don't know, obviously again, this is my opinion, but you'll get so bogged down with the stuff that doesn't give you the dopamine here that you may never actually make it happen. Yeah. I don't think. our brains can do the hardest thing first. I think we have to do the fun thing first. We have time management against that, but I don't think our brains will be ignited enough and we'll get too bogged down with it, bored and in the end, the dream or the plan may never happen because we've gone and done it in a neurotypical way. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think it's like, book it, then you'll have the, you know, the energy to do it, but book it in a year. So it's that combo. That's an important thing you said then, because I know how much effort and how much needs to go into it. There's no way, even events, even anything, I wouldn't put that on myself because I know I won't show up. I'll be so overwhelmed. I'd show up as a completely different person if I did that. But I struggle with that in our business now, what we're doing with the podcast and stuff, because it is a big, short turnaround. Because you do like people go, I want to... to go on the podcast tomorrow. So I've really had to try and dig deep with these, with my new role because you don't get that leeway of time. Yeah, well, actually, this is sort of inside baseball strategy stuff. But one of the things I found really helpful is if I set up Cal and Lee events, I would have sent you one. I can have a restriction that says you have to book x number of days in advance. Yeah. And so... I just send people calendar links and it's set up to say, you have to book at least a week or two weeks or whatever bandwidth I feel like I need in advance so that I can send things out and not worry about suddenly having to do this tomorrow. Yeah. So I highly recommend that. Yeah, I've got a calendar link actually, but I'm very new to it. I've not really researched much. Yeah, hunt around in the how to set it up in terms of the timing because you can make a lot of restrictions, which are really helpful. Yeah, let's do that. Boundaries, virtual boundaries. Yeah, yeah, because then you can send it out to everyone. Exactly. Do you know what I was just thinking when you said that though? Do you find, because I struggle with communication quite a lot and it comes from a place of nervousness, I think. So I never know what each podcast I go to or record. I never know how I'm actually going to show up. Sometimes I really struggle. Other days it just flows. And I think it is an ADHD thing. I think we never really quite know how our energy is going to be. Do you struggle with that? Do you find that like, I mean, it's definitely a struggle. I think this is one of my first evening podcasts and I find the evening ones have a different flow, but it definitely try and like do movement. So I do some exercise beforehand. I'll listen to something. I'll usually spend a bit of time listening to the person's podcast. kind of hanging out with them in that way. That really helps having that kind of like pre prep routine, trying to be like, okay, the half hour before the podcast is basically the podcast. That I think has been the most helpful thing is just like not ever showing up. It's very similar to what you talk about with retreats and other things like never showing up flustered right from something else essentially. No way. I actually think about these things for like, majority of the day until they happen. I'm there already. Yep. A hundred percent. Well, I just have a couple more questions for you. What is the one professional achievement that you would say you're the most proud of? The untangled podcast, a hundred percent. Untangled overall. Yeah. Cool. And is there a professional failure that has embarrassed you and how did you deal with that? First of all, I definitely don't believe in failure. I believe there is no such thing with everything that doesn't go right is always a chance for us to grow, you know, learn, grow and transform. And it's just an opportunity to create revisions to get to our vision. You know, if you think about anyone that's gone out and achieved anything, my coach always says this to me, they didn't take their first step and it was a success. They took many different steps backwards and forwards. get what I wanted. So I don't really believe in the word failure as a sense or fear in it. But the things that frustrate me a lot and embarrass me a lot, I suppose I get a bit of shame over, is my inability to check my words. And again, this is something I'm working on and getting someone to check for me because with the podcast, it was an MP of all the people from parliament. And I put up the podcast and I hadn't spelled anyone's name wrong on the podcast. And it was only up for like half an hour. The team had noticed it. I spelled his name wrong. His name's Bamboz and I put Bambooz. And I just remember thinking to myself, why can't you check? Because I've noticed I can spell, like not the best speller, but it's not that I can't spell. I just rush things. And I don't like checking. Once I've wrote, you know, again, the dopamine's done. I've wrote all my stuff. I don't want to read through it again. That's probably something that I would say I'm embarrassed on. But my favorite quote around failure, actually, I just want to share is, success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It's the courage to continue that counts. So whatever happens, just getting back up in the game. And I think we're quite good at that ADHD as to... Yeah, we're resilient. We've lost a lot of things and still showed up to the day. I think we're really good at it. Yep. We just keep going. So no, that's great. I really love that. And, um, what is your favorite dopamine activity? Is it yoga? It's movement overall. So it depends on what I'm feeling, but yoga, I'm really, you know, I'm teaching a lot of reformer Pilates at the moment. So that's my new buzz at the minute. I'm loving it. And walking is really, really good for me. It was coffee, but I've just given it up. So yeah, I gave up coffee recently as well. Now I live on decaf coffee, which is good. I'm like, it's not coffee. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, movement, a hundred percent. Yeah. And what, if you had an ADHD life motto, what would that be? I was thinking some mottoes are like, sure. I suppose it's like a quote really. I just feel like ADHD can be your worst enemy or your best friend. Remembering that for every struggle that you're faced with your ADHD, there will always be a strength to be found. I love that. Just pausing to notice what we're focusing on. If we're paying attention more to the negatives instead of the positives, you know, it will expand. So I just think remembering that, always having that in the back of your head. Am I focusing on what I can't do or what I can do? Yeah, that's great. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to chat, Rosie. It's been really awesome chatting with you. and having your skills and your story. So where can people find out more about you? By the way, I've loved being here. So thank you so much. No worries. So my untangled Instagram is adhd underscore untangled. My personal Instagram is Rosie Turner strength, just all together. And my website is untangledco.com. So you can find out all different things on there. Awesome. Yeah. And I'll be on your podcast and a couple of weeks chatting. So that'll be great. We'll have an opportunity to do it the other way around. Yeah, exactly. We will. I can't wait. Yeah. Oh, well, thanks so much. Thank you so much. Honestly, it's been such a pleasure. 

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