Eric Tivers: How to build a strategy-based life with ADHD

Hi, we are the ADHD Skills Lab podcast. My name is Skye. And my name is Sarah. And we will be your hosts, chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills and working through struggles in their lives. You might know us from Unconventional Organization, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along and we're going to chat through it together. 

Today we are with Eric Tivers. Eric Tivers is a trained licensed clinical social worker, turned coach, as well as the founder and CEO of ADHD Rewired, which I'm sure you've all heard of. Since 2014, he produced over 500 episodes of the podcast, as well as building a network of ADHD-based podcasts. Eric earned his bachelor's in social work at Bradley University and his master's in social work at the University of Illinois. He is also the dad to a neurodivergent 12 year old, a self-taught musician, and a pickleball enthusiast, which I had to look up because I'd never heard of it, but it does look fun. So welcome Eric. Thank you so much. And you can add to that list, obsessed with motorcycles as well. Cause that's my, that's my new hobby as of last year is, uh, yeah. Have you had any accidents on the motorcycle? Cause my, um, family are also pretty obsessed by a brother-in-law. As a motorcycle as well. So I'm just interested to hear, you know, not, not going to wood. Not yet. So, uh, you know, good, good. That's awesome. I'm hoping to keep it that way. Yeah. That's the key. So where are you based in the U S I'm in the Chicago area. So just Chicago. Nice. I think there's a number of people there who work with ADHD space. Very cool. And you work closely with. So many ADHD adults, so I'm really excited to talk strategies and tips with you. But before that, I actually wanted to know a little bit about your ADHD journey and how you ended up starting the podcast and then founding the organization as a whole. So when were you diagnosed with ADHD? I was diagnosed when I was 19 after a pretty disastrous first year of college. And that very first semester being away from home. I got a 2.2 GPA and, you know, but I would say I was earned. I didn't really do much studying. It was more partying. Yeah. And then with the threat from my folks, they said like, hey, if you don't get those grades up, like you are coming home because we're not paying for this too. It's not right. So, you know, I worked really hard that semester and really studied, found the library, even did all the things that I was supposed to do. And I did worse. I got a 1.8. Wow. That must be tough. Yeah. And, you know, so fortunately I was able to, uh, prevent my folks for just like, give me one more shot here. And they, they did allow me to get one more shot. And I, during that summer, I met someone who I was talking with and she was telling me about that she was diagnosed with ADHD and she was sharing with me what that was like for her. And it was like big light bulb moments of, wait, that's what ADHD is. And it was like, someone was speaking the language that I thought only internally. I, the way that she was experienced in the world and some of the challenges that she had with like organization and time management and reading. And it was just like, oh my God, someone's like describing me. Yeah. Right at the very start of my second semester, I made an appointment with the University Health Center. I got an evaluation. I remember the psychiatrist that did the evaluation said, wow, like you were not identified as ADHD. How'd you make it this far? Because like, I'm inattentive still, like off the charts kind of. I got the diagnosis, I prescribed Adderall, and I kind of view life in a pre-VAT moment and post that moment. Yeah, I can imagine. It was a game changer. It really was. It was this experience of, oh, I can focus. Oh, I can actually read, you know what I just read, which was the first time I took medication. That was one of the biggest wows for me. was realizing how much my mind really typically wanders while reading and was able to read a chapter of a book. And I know what I just read because I was just thinking about the words I was reading instead of a thousand other things. So I'm so curious now, how did you get all the way to 19 without being diagnosed? I had no idea. I mean, it's back to like, I mean, stories from being really young. There's Preschool, I told my mom that I don't think my teacher knows my name. So what do you mean? She doesn't know your name. Of course, she knows your name. You know, the teachers probably calling my parents regularly to Concern about my behavior. I said well, I don't think she knows my name because you know, she keeps calling me don't Eric Oh gosh It's a five-week-old awesome Disney World. I mean, there's just so many things. I mean, yeah in first grade. I remember like the shameful experience, my mommy called to the school after school one day because my desk was such a disaster that I had to empty my desk in front of my mom. And just like, there were just so many experiences like that girl. So many things. Yeah. But if you don't know what they connected to, there's no expectation they could be connected to anything. It's just, it's just don't Eric. Pretty much. Yeah. And you know, my diagnosis when I was young was lazy. Yeah. They're like, Oh, well, if you're interested in it, you can do it. Like, cause you put all this effort into the things that you like. It's like, well, it's so true. And yeah, that whole idea of you get diagnosed with something, even if it's not ADHD, somebody picks it up and says, this is who you are. And that is so true. Yeah. Yeah. And I did have an IEP, but it was for a learning disability, which I'm not even sure was accurate. Like I definitely have some math stuff I discovered late, very late in life that I also like is Calculia. Oh yeah. I have dyscalculia as well. That was the one thing they were like, how did you not? I went and studied for my doctorate and I did the test for dyscalculia and they stopped the test. They were just like, you have it. We won't make you take this test anymore. That was how bad it was. And I didn't discover that myself until I was in business for myself. And like, yeah, I was entering credit card numbers on the machine and like, it kept saying invalid number, invalid number. I asked my now ex-wife, we just watch what I'm doing. And she's like, you can swap in these numbers like every time you put it in. Like, yeah, I discovered it's particular with like patterned numbers. So like something that's like 4889. I will like reprocess that to type it in as 4899. So I'll like, yeah, double number. I'll switch, which is the double. Oh my gosh, like how did I not figure this out? It's crazy. It is crazy. I will say with the dyscalculia, this is a bit of a tangent, but I had to pass a basic math refresher test as part of my post-graduate statistics, that test I barely passed and then I did well on the programming. They were like, now we're going to give you the hard stuff. And then that was the one I did well. That makes so much sense to me. Cause like in undergrad, I only passed stats at the, I took stats over the summer. community college. I couldn't pass it at university. And the other reason I actually passed the test was like, I met this teacher, his professor was awful and barely even knew English. Not even hyperbole. He was still learning English and we're confused what isn't and isn't. And when you think that, it changes everything. The final exam, he literally put the answers in the back of everyone's test and walked around the classroom. I'm not even kidding you. We're like, should we get something wrong? I need every plan I can get in here. Grad school went to research methods, which is all the applied. Yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I was really into it. Like, give me the context. Like, oh, there's a utility for this. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. A discocular is something that I'm interested in, but there's not enough information at the moment, but it's, it's very, very cool. Yeah. So in terms of the ADHD, bringing it back to ADHD. Although for those of you who have discocular, now you feel heard. You're welcome. So how did you move from learning about your own ADHD to wanting to share what you learned with others? Because that's a big shift. Yeah, it was kind of a journey. I did well the last four years of college. I was in the five-year plan and I did well in grad school. So in between my undergrad and grad school, I worked at a therapeutic day school. I was first working with kids that had like emotional and behavioral challenges. And then I started this autism program I just fell in love with kids who were just like really, really challenging behaviors. But like I was so intrigued by it. My brain is like, whoa, what is this? You know? And so as someone who like my brain gets turned on by stuff that's like complex and challenging, and I just seem to like get it. And so when I went back to grad school, I wanted to focus on autism. And so I did that. I started to be a school social worker. I found that I did not care for the school politics. kind of to don't do well with biting my tongue very well when I think of something. Um, and apparently that's a skill that you need when you're working in a political system. So fast forward, finished grad school. I was the clinical program manager for a residential group home. Then I got a job doing applied behavioral analysis with more of a higher functioning kids with autism and a little bit of ADHD really fell into working with some of the, those kids who are just like way smarter than you. and like, I have the social skills to let you know it. Yeah, yeah. I love working with those quirky, clever kids. And then I took that for about a year and a half and then I got laid off. And prior to that, I just recently got my clinical licensure so I could do practice, which I was always planning on doing. I just didn't think I was going to be doing it that soon. But it just was the same week that I got laid off, at the very end of the week, at the beginning of that week. my ex at the time, we had just signed our paperwork for our first mortgage. We just bought a house. Oh my gosh. Everything's happening. Yeah. So I have a mortgage and no job. Yeah. I started my own clinical practice. The focus was high functioning autism and ADHD. So I did that for a number of years and then I started a podcast, ADHD Rewired. I didn't have a grandmaster plan on this podcast. It's funny when I think back in it now, I literally started a second business but I didn't even realize that's what it was at the time. Yep. Yeah. So I'm like dabbling in this online stuff. I'm learning all this online marketing. I start the podcast. And then I just had this idea. I'm like, what if I do a group? Because at the time, I was seeing a therapist, some of my ADHD stuff. And I was doing this thing that I think a lot of people do when they're in therapy, if they actually do the homework that they're assigned. And what I was doing, I was getting to my therapy appointments like 20 to 30 minutes early. car and do the homework that I was supposed to be working on all week, right before my flight. Yep. Because that's how they expect you to do it. But that's how you do it. And I was just like, man, it just felt so frustrating because I'm like, it's not that I haven't thought about it. I think throughout the week, but without that immediate accountability, a week is forever away. Yeah. I started looking at it. There's got to be something where I can get more real time, more immediate accountability, sort of day to day because I know what I want to be doing, but I'm not doing it. Right? Yeah. And so I looked and looked and looked and there was literally nothing out there. So I created these online intensive coaching and accountability groups and created something that wasn't there that I saw there was a need for. And that's how it sort of all evolved. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. It was just like, I saw this need. I'm like, how could I solve this problem? Yeah. 100%. So at that point, did you have any business experience or were you sort of like, let's do this and then let's figure out how businesses work? I mean, if you count selling blow pops in middle school and selling... I absolutely count that. Yes. Selling tie-dye and beer on my fish tour when I was in my early 20s. Yeah. Sure. That's my business experience. But beyond that, not really. No. Yeah. I've always thought that's very entrepreneurial. Yeah. No, 100%. I mean, I started this business because I was like, I have ADHD. I want to figure out ADHD. And I have a PhD, which I'm supposed to be focusing on. full-time, nothing else. And then, well, you know, what's one more thing? Exactly. Yeah, it's 100% that. But I'm curious because you decided to disclose your own ADHD and you didn't have to. There's a lot of people I know who work in those clinical spaces who on the download, they have ADHD or they have something or they suspect they have something, but they haven't, they decided not to disclose because they didn't want to, particularly at the time. I think it was even more. unusual. So what was it about your experience that made you want to disclose? Well, it's interesting. When I first started my practice, my disclosure, at least on my website, was very like, if you read it between the lines, you can kind of pick up on it. I was not explicit saying, I have ADHD. It was when I started the podcast that I really fully kind of came out with it. It was really early on too. I got an email from someone that their email said... Oh, it takes a lot of balls to share what you did. And I was like, oh God. It does? Oh my gosh. What did I share? Oh, shoot. It's out there now. But what I found is that people found it really comforting to know that this person understands what I'm going through, because they're going through it too. I don't know. It was, yeah, he is comforting. And there was an episode I did during the first year that I was just a hot mess. Like I was, oh, what episode was it? I was like... getting ready for the launch of my second season of coaching groups. I was just like, the worker holism was just like in full effect. The burnout was coming. I was doing like 90 to 100 hour weeks. I was hired to give a talk to the school district on the same week that I had all this other stuff to do for registration for the coaching groups. And I was like, Oh my God, I don't have an episode to go. And I was like, I was almost at episode 50. And I was like, what am I going to do? I'm going to like miss my streak. Most people don't make it past 25. And if I do that, like 50, I'm like, oh yeah. I was so desperate. Like it's not missing out. So I grabbed my recorder and I just brought it in the car with me driving to this presentation. And I kind of call it an auditory MRI of ADHD. I don't think I finished a single sentence. I was like, oh, man, I don't know if I should release this. This is not putting me in a real good light. Yeah, yeah. You're like, now hire me for all of you. Right. And the. What was so pleasantly unexpected was just the feedback and the impact of that episode actually had. In so many ways, not just for the people listening, but from the feedback from it, it helped me realize like, oh, I don't actually have to have like it all together. It's okay to be a little bit of a mess sometimes, which in this very sort of ironic way, the less I have to stress about making it look like I have everything together, The less my ADHD actually impacts me. Cause you're not masking. You're doing less masking. That's exactly right. And it helped me with a lot of my sort of perfectionistic tendencies. I was like, oh, this doesn't need to be perfect. Well, dang. You're like, oh, that's good. It takes all that extra time I would spend on it. Yeah. So yeah, I don't remember what your question was, but. No, I mean, you've answered it. It's great. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Because I think I always like to ask people who are public about their ADHD about. how they disclosed and what that experience was like, because you'll know it's a question that you get so often. And I was listening to a recent podcast episode where you talked about the idea that you used to say, I wouldn't necessarily disclose at work. And now maybe moving into more like, we'll see how it goes. And yeah, it's very much that it's tough to disclose. So for people who have, I always like to ask about that process. Yeah, no, it's not two jobs. Like I disclose when the writing was on the wall that I might be like, making some kind of like performance improvement plan. Cause I was behind it on that paperwork or stuff like that. Like I was a good clinician. It was the paperwork that killed her. Yeah. And then ironically, sometimes when you do disclose, it adds to the paperwork. Now you have more paperwork. Yeah, for sure. 

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So in terms of kind of your own routines and ADHD strategies, what are the strategies that you have kept coming back to the ones that feel like fundamentals for your life? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. You know, you mentioned routine. It's like, I do kind of look at routine as kind of like the holy grail for managing ADHD. because when we have a routine, we don't have to be taxing our executive functions as much. So like my morning, like I'm pretty regimented in the morning and it's interesting, there's been some other things going on too, but like it's so much so that I've been kind of wondering, like, is it possible that I'm on the autism spectrum some more maybe? And it's like, and as of this moment, I don't actually have a definitive answer to that. It's something I'm actually still exploring. Cause I was thinking, well, I'm like so regimented cause a previous partner of mine would like. we were talking about mental flexibility, because with my son and her kids, we're all struggling with mental flexibility. And so I said, yeah, I think I'm pretty flexible. She's like, oh yeah, you are? When I cut the strawberries for your breakfast differently than you'd like them. I was like, well, there's a right way to do it. Yeah, your partner knows, they'll call you out. Right? So I was like, oh, maybe I do have some rigidity in this area. And so I've been like for a while, I'm really kind of thinking about that. part of an autism piece. And then it just recently occurred to me, I'm like, I actually don't think so, I'm sure, but I don't think so. I think it really has been these strategies that I've developed to really help me not have to make decisions in the morning, to like, routine, you know? Plus I have basically the same thing every morning, and I do the same thing for lunch too. Yeah, same by the way, actually. Yeah, now that you mentioned it. And I get pretty thrown off if something interrupts the routine. So that's really helpful for me. Morning exercise is also huge for me. It is, it's really amazing. If I miss a couple days of working out, and that just exacerbates my ADHD, like my anxiety gets higher, which then, you know, it's a kind of a big downer. So the exercise, I'm pretty good about doing my planning. You know, I think part of it is, is this idea of creating a sort of a strategy-based life, right? And learning how to sort of bend the world to you, I'm the other way. Right. And so it's like figuring out what is it that I need in my life to make all the things that could be easier, easier from having an assistant, an executive assistant to I have a cleaning person. I should just recently brought it to do a weekly was every other week. And I was like, you know what? It is like the most joyous. Like I totally get it's an element of privilege that I can do that. But man, is it helpful, right? Like if I never have to do my laundry again, like I think that I kind of won the lottery because it's, I tell you, I hate doing laundry because I never, never finish it. Like I'll do it. The last, that last thing, the folding, the putting away. The putting away in particular. Yeah. And then it's like, it all gets mixed together. It's like, crap, what was the clean basket? What was the dirt? I'm like, oh, you know, and so it's like that kind of stuff. So it's that recognition of, oh, you're standing like, I know what I'm good at. I definitely know what I'm not good at. And trying to get as much help around the stuff that I struggle with. focus on what I am good at. You know, even just things like, if you were to call me on my phone and get my voicemail, my voicemails don't tell you, don't leave a message. Like if you want to talk to me, I do something on my website. Cause like I live on my calendar. Like if it's on my calendar, it's gonna happen. If it's just like, hey, call me back. Yeah, it's, you know, if I do call you back, you should go buy a lottery ticket that day. Yeah. To me it's the importance of ownership of both the struggle and the strength. Like it's both. Yeah. And doing it with a level of humor and understanding as much as possible, as much as you can. I know it gets easier over time, the more you connect with other people with ADHD as well. So I have a question specifically, you mentioned planning and this is specific, but I'm just curious, what days do you plan? Is it every day? Is it in the mornings? Like when are you planning? I'll be the first to say like all the stuff that I even teach like my coaching program. I don't always do. And I tell people that it's important to know, what I do is I always come back to the basics when I've slipped. If I slip, I slip, but I bounce back. I keep bouncing back. So what do I do? When I'm on my game, I do a longer stretch of planning on Sundays. Cause when you're regularly planning and you're not missing days, daily planning is typically for me, it's about a five minute process. When I slipped from it a bit, it's a longer process cause I gotta kind of really get back to that flow. of, all right, so what were my goals for the year? And now I'm trying, all right, what do I got this month? So am I track for that? So for my day, you know, it's somewhere between a five to, you know, sometimes up to a 20 minute planning process. Earlier on, when I was really trying to figure this planning thing out, I found like doing it really like strict kind of 20 minutes a day planning. I thought it was really helpful. And then one of the things that I, and I've kind of found this irony of creating this really strategy-based life is, I actually try to create a lot of streamlined systems in my life, which ironically then actually requires less planning. I'm not actually like doing all these different things. So I'm doing a bunch of things. I need to really plan and really be detailed about my planning. Otherwise, I can't keep track of all the stuff I'm doing. But when I really have very intentionally narrowed my focus so much so I know what I need to be doing so it doesn't require that much planning. Right. Yeah. It does. And then I'm like, wait a minute, I'm like, I'm dropping balls here. I'm forgetting stuff. So it's this kind of balance of like, all right, I got to stay on my planning. But it's also like, really trying to have a lower level of complexity in my day, which then just makes it easier all around. Lower decision making, like you said, that idea of reducing decision making. Yeah. Are you a physical planner or digital planner or a combination of both? So I'm a combination of both. Or as far as calendars, as much as I love paper calendars and miss them very much, because I like my clinical practice, it was just me, right? Yeah, yeah. And I like to be able to write in the margins. But as I have people on my team and I want people to be able to schedule with me, it's all digital. It's all online as far as my calendar goes. As far as my to-do list goes, it just depends on the day and the week. Sometimes like. Likely I've been using a notebook. Sometimes I'm using a sauna. Sometimes I'm using sticky notes. Sometimes it was using a dry erase board. And one of the things that I've discovered is that, so I have my sort of my main, my goals for the year in one spot. And each month I'm going there and kind of like looking at, all right, what do I really want to be focusing on? But recognizing the value of novelty. Like, cause I was using a sauna for a long time. And then I was just like, I was just like, wasn't paying attention to it. It almost became too complex and I was like, I don't even want to look at this anymore. Yeah. So as someone who loves technology, and I think I've probably have tried every single like Tdless app that ever existed and discovered all the same issues with every single app and then realized, wait a minute, it's actually not the app. You're using every app. Okay. So it's not the app as easy as it can be to, you know, grab the phone, you know, using your, your digital assistant and say, you know, remind me, blah, blah. You still have to do the thing, right? Yeah, I hate that part. Yeah, me too. Me too. So it's really just being intentional. I think one of the things that I learned too is the importance of language in our to-do list. Yes. Well, sometimes like right, kind of almost like shorthand and I call it like we're writing noun sense when people just write like, doctor. Yeah. I know what I meant when I wrote it. But now I'm looking at no idea what it means. Dr. Question Mark, that's also fun. Yeah. So looking at like, not only just starting your to-do's with verbs, but I call them vision verbs. So the idea of, can you actually see in your mind's eye the actual action that needs to be taken? I think a lot of people will use what I call pseudo verbs. And the things like, look up or find out. Like what does that actually tell you? Yeah. Google is a great verb, right? That's telling you where is the context of that action. You know, instead of a talk to you, it's like, all right, how do you talk to you? Is it a call, is it a text, is it an email? So it's really being very, very specific about like the actual action and then looking at the contingencies. So the if this, then that. So there's this whole option that, you know, this thing about adulting in our to-do list, often when we finish an item on our to-do list, it often just creates another item. Yes. It's like a long string. And sometimes if I'm not sure what the next action might be, as part of my to do item, I'll even put, identify the next action step. Or I'll say, if this then that, so if this happens, I want to do that. If that happens, then I want to do that. Because often contingencies in real time can freeze my brain. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I'll call you back. But if I thought about it ahead of time, then it's like, oh, okay. That took maybe enough for 30 seconds to figure out. Yeah. And you can do it on those days when you're like, especially if you have a planning day and it's a Sunday and you've had, you know, beverage or whatever. And you're like in a good space to come up with those kinds of ideas. Yep. And, um, you know, other things that I'll include the why, why do I want to get this like, what's the impact? Why does this matter? I can so often say the what, but like, you know, we are passion driven people. Like when we have a walk and get to our what, it's going to make it way easier to actually focus more on that. Yeah. piece that I add to it is I'll make time predictions on how long I think those tasks will take me. And sometimes it'll also include effort predictions, like how hard I think this task will be. Because that will kind of tell me on a given day or given week, all right, like I had good sleep, I exercised, I can tackle some of those harder tasks. I have more stress or this I haven't slept well or whatever. Like my EF is not going to be as high as I want it to be. So I might not tackle some of the higher demands. Yeah, no. No, that's so great. I'm just thinking about my own calendar now and the adjustments. Cause I think having the why is so important because I've definitely had situations before where there's a task and I look at it and I go, that why is now redundant. Like if I thought about why I'm doing that, that's not a thing anymore, but it's there on my list and I'm just doing it. I'd like to tell people that just cause it's on your list, like it doesn't get squatter rights. Like you can kick an item. You added it there? Like good. Like. be generous about putting stuff on your to-do list, but I'd say be even more generous with taking things off. Yeah. And because we have, if you're familiar with CRS. Yeah. I don't know if this is a family friendly language based podcast. We switch it depending on who's on. Also, I can't remember stuff. You know, you can blend your other app. So if we take something off our to-do list that we're not going to do, it's a lot of people like, oh, but like, it feels like this shame piece of like, just to do something. I'm like, they're kind of pretty cool. was ever there in like 30 seconds, just take it off. It's also a good feeling. It's like half completing. You're like, I didn't complete this, but it isn't necessary anymore. So it's kind of like it got done by something. You know what one of my favorite things to do as far as when I start my planning process is I go through like, what are the items that are, I'm gonna do this that I've actually already done and I just forgotten to cross off. Items that if I'm being really honest with myself, I'm probably not gonna do it. And just start there. Yeah. Less is always more. So if you can start with less, you're going to get stuff that's actually important then. Yeah. No, 100%. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So many strategies. I'm definitely going to listen to this again. And take some more notes. But the other thing that I wanted to talk about with you was that community because I think you, over the years, like you said, you started out kind of doing this, not ad But as you went, you built a community. So you built a community of people that you talk to and work with. You also built an internal community of people that, you know, you work within the business. So how is that whole community developing and driving what you do today? So much of what we do is community-based because I think that we all know all these different ideas, like don't struggle alone. Um, the idea like the me too experience. I mean, it's, there's something that is just so profoundly powerful doing this work within the context of community. I think that when we can see ourselves in others, you know, we, we tend to be generous with our sort of assumptions of how other people are doing. And when they're, we hear people being hard on themselves. We're like, we've got to know that like you're being really hard on yourself. Like you're doing all these really great things. Yeah. But we are at a time sort of giving that generosity to ourselves and that compassion to ourselves. What happens when we're doing this work in group settings? that we start to sort of see ourselves in others and then realize the impact of some of that like negative self-talk and some of the, that lack of self-confrontion that we often have for just ourselves. Because you know, the way I kind of describe it is like doing group is kind of like, there's like a dozen mirrors looking back at you. But maybe for the first time, like there's not judgment looking back at you, right? It's like full acceptance and like, recognize that you know what, like sure, there's stuff that I suck at and I'm just going to say it. I suck at certain things. I screw up certain things. But there's also lots of things I'm really good at. Yeah. I think a lot of people, they start to recognize, okay, like, it's okay that like, I have certain things that I'm just not good at. And recognizing and actually allowing yourself to step into and own, you know, I'm actually really good at this, that and the other thing. Let me spend more time there instead of just beating the crap out of myself for the things that, you know, I think I quote unquote should be able to be good at. Yeah, no, that's so important. I mean, by yourself, that mirror, whole mirrors is kind of like funhouse mirrors. You're just looking at yourself, but everything looks weird and it doesn't make sense. The clarity of other people to be able to be like, that's a lot of things that you did this week. Even just something like that. Think you didn't do anything, but. actually know there was a car accident that you had and you had to get insurance and then this and this happened. And that might be why you didn't do the hundred things on your to-do list. Well, the other thing I find too is that so often people with ADHD, they think it's just them that aren't getting everything done on their to-do list. Mm hmm. And I think it's really important that people hear this. Nobody gets everything done on their to-do list. Yeah. Including neurotypical people. Yes. I think it's just us. Yeah, 100%. Which is why I think it's so important that we are, one of the things in my coaching groups, I have our members read the book, The One Thing by Gary Keller. It's not an ADHD focused book, but I think it's one of the best books that really helps break down the idea of how do you actually prioritize? Cause like prioritization is really hard with ADHD. Cause our brain tends to just think whatever is like nearest to us, loudest, you know, around us. Yeah. That's the thing that we prioritize, right? It's probably based on proximity, which is an awful way to actually prioritize, right? So with the idea of the one thing, it really looks at what's the one thing you can do that's gonna make all the other things easier or unnecessary. And so it really helps you identify what's the first action step to focus on to have the greatest impact, but then also kind of zooming out and what are the things that I could be doing in my life that's gonna make all the other things that I'm wanting to do in my life easier? Yeah, no, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. And I think that's so relevant because I did want to ask you about prioritizing, but you just, you just answered my question. It was like the one thing I wanted to ask about with the strategies. So, so yeah, that's, that's an excellent strategy. You know, another thing too, it's like, so there's that, that they call it the focusing question in the book, the one thing there's another question that I, that I like to ask myself and I use this in our community. It's sort of this, this little variation of this question. Because we've all had those days and even those weeks and sometimes those months where we have all the things we needed to do and we didn't get anything done. Like we've all had those. And so asking this question, if I could only get one thing done today or this week or this month, what would it be? It kind of plays differently in my mind. And I think it's for a lot of other people too. I think in some ways it's similar to like when you're decluttering. It's like sometimes it can be hard to know what to get rid of. But if you flip it and say, all right, I'm putting all of this in the garbage bag. Now I have to choose what am I picking out of the garbage bag? What do we want to keep? It just happens to resonate differently for a lot of people. And so much of what we do too, it's like, we got to be like professional experimenters to figure out what's going to work for us. Yeah. And we're good at that. Thank goodness with ADHD, generally speaking. I think for a lot of us, we are, I think those who do really well on I see thrive are better at embracing the idea of experimentation. I think those who struggle more, they just want to figure out the one right way to do it and they like desperately want that way to stick forever. Yeah. Oh gosh. I wish that I wish that was a thing, but it's just that's why acceptance is so important. You know what? This is working for now. Like I have no assumption that the stuff I'm doing that's working right now is going to work in a month now and a year from now. Yeah. I'm always mindful of like, all right, like constantly reevaluating. Like is this working? What else could I try? Yeah, no, 100%. Well, we're getting to the end of our time. So I'm just going to ask you some of our ADHD skills labs questions. These can just be short answers. But tell us about one professional achievement that you're most proud of. So as of this recording, tomorrow I think we're coming out with episode 489. So I think by the time this actually airs, we'll have an episode. Congratulations. Thank you. So that's awesome. And we served over a thousand people in our coaching community. The fact that I really love the work that I do and get to play in my work in a sense, like I'm proud of it. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And on the flip side, is there a professional failure that embarrasses you? How did you deal with that? Oh, that's how much time do we have? As I've been growing the business. had this sort of vision of myself as this really great leader, but like having your own self-constant of a great leader and actually being a great leader are two very different things. Earlier on, I had a wonderful coach who was working with us who left because I was not being the kind of leader that she needed. I wasn't being, I wasn't, I wasn't helpful enough. Like I was kind of letting her do her thing and she needed more support and I wasn't providing that. So it's really understanding how to lead a team and especially I've been finding it to be harder than I thought it would be. I definitely have invested some in my own coaching. And, you know, actually last year I took part in a business accelerated program with wanting to get more help with some of my leadership and it was more focused on systems, so it really wasn't the right program for me. It was super expensive. And like... It's really tough with those business programs. They don't tell you what's in them and then you try it and you're like, oh. Yeah. I'm like, well, that was an expensive lesson. It's the people stuff. It's the, how do you grow a business where... Basically everyone in the business is also neurodivergent. Right. And so you have that as a whole other level of complication. It also has a level of like ease and like familiarity and comfort. But like as running an organization, you also like having people accountable to do what they said they were going to do. Those are some of the challenges. I mean, there's, I can certainly list more, you know, it's, uh, that's all good. We just like, I like to ask that question because. I know and you know that there's so many things, but I think from the outside perspective, they can be like, oh, Eric, he's never made a mistake in his life. It was just one shot all the way. I always tell the members of my coaching groups, I'm like, I just want to be really clear about something just because I think some of my people, you know, they want to join my groups because they kind of put me on this pedestal of like, yeah, Eric's got it all figured out. I'm like, geez, I don't have it all figured out. I might be, you know, a couple steps ahead of you because I've been doing this for a while. But like, I got ADHD too, and sometimes my ADHD wins as well. So this idea that like, oh, like, here's a 500 podcast episodes, yeah. Like, yeah, and I've also struggled with perfectionism, like big time, and workaholism, big time. And I've had a lot of lessons learned. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And then the final question is, if you had an ADHD life motto, what would it be? You could just probably pick from one of an amount, because I'm sure there's lots. You can choose to do work that you love. Like work doesn't have to be super hard. And I think that's a really important part of managing it is recognizing that like we're adults, we can make decisions on the types of things we are willing to do and I get it, there's privilege in that. But if you're in a position where you feel like you can't do that, asking yourself that question, all right, what would you need to do so you can position yourself, you know, in your future so you can do more. Yeah. What's the one thing this week that you could do? Yeah, it's, um, easy. I know self willing got one life and that much of this be all about work. Joy life too. I think that's really important. Yeah, no, definitely. Well, thank you, Eric, so much for taking the time to share your really interesting strategies and your story with us. It's been great to talk to you and, um, where can people find out more about you and what you do? At my website at ADHDrewired.com. I'm on most of the social channels as well, but that's probably the best place to go to find out about our coaching groups. We also have a virtual coworking community. We can find out about the podcast there. And if you're, since you are listening to a podcast right now, listening to this, also search right on the app that you're listening to this right now on for ADHD. Awesome. It's been great to have you on. Thank you, Sky. 

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