Interview with Dietitian Aleta Storch: ADHD eating strategies, self-compassion and snacks

Hi, we are the ADHD Skills Lab podcast. My name is Skye. And my name is Sarah. And we will be your hosts, chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills and working through struggles in their lives. You might know us from Unconventional Organization, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along and we're going to chat through it together. 

So today we are lucky enough to have Alita with us. Alita is an anti-diet dietician, a therapist, a certified body trust provider who specializes in supporting folks that have disordered eating, have a history of dieting or autoimmune conditions and or ADHD. She also works with individual clients in a virtual practice and she created an eating with ADHD model, which I'm really excited to jump into. which is the founder of her membership program. Outside of work, Alita loves mountain biking, foraging for mushrooms, and spending time with her partner, and dog. So welcome, Alita. It's so really great to have you on the pod. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have a conversation. Yeah, definitely. So let's start by just asking where you're based. So I'm based in Bellingham, Washington, which is just south of Canada on the west coast. Wow, awesome, awesome. That's really cool. 

So Alida, would you like to tell us a little bit about your ADHD eating journey? Maybe how did you eat before you found out you had ADHD and did that affect sort of how you ate afterwards? Yeah, definitely. So I got kind of an informal diagnosis as a kid. I sort of checked all of the ADHD boxes and it was suggested by like different teachers and my pediatrician growing up, but it was like the mid 90s. And so there was still a lot of... stigma around ADHD. My parents didn't really want me on medication at that age. So it was sort of pushed aside. And so I wasn't formally diagnosed until I was in grad school. But looking back at my childhood, my food and eating was super chaotic, really haphazard. My parents did a really great job of making sure that I was as nourished as I could be. They always like had really easy grab and go foods around. They have lots of cheese sticks that I could just run out the door with. and be eating while I was playing outside. But it was really chaotic. And if I wasn't presented with food or food wasn't made available for me, I would have just totally forgotten to eat. I would have not even been thinking about it. And it was the same with hydration. I never remembered to drink any water. And I was also really, really picky growing up. So I would get really hyper fixated on certain foods. I went through like a hot wing phase and the Caesar salad phase, which seems really random for kids. still love those foods, but I would only eat certain foods and then that would change. And so it made it really hard to feed myself even when food was available. So I think about like the school cafeteria, there would be like four or five options, but I wouldn't want any of it. So my mom packed like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich almost every single day. That was what I ate when I like remembered to grab my lunchbox, which wouldn't always happen. There were a lot of barriers to eating. Once I got the ADHD diagnosis, I was actually in school to be a dietitian. And so that coincided nicely. And I was able to really understand what was getting in the way of feeding myself, why I was really struggling with planning out meals, making food, feeding myself regularly. And so once I had both the diagnosis and then also some of the knowledge and lived experience, I was able to shift and create some systems and tools so that I can actually feed myself. and I was not eating at all during the day and then binge eating at night. Was that when you first got the diagnosis or sorry, prior to the diagnosis? Yeah, so in grad school, I was so focused on working and getting all my schoolwork done that I just wouldn't eat and then I'd get home and I was starving and it just felt so confusing because I had really like moved away from diet culture. I had done a lot of intuitive eating work, but I like still wasn't able to feed myself. So you'd already done some of the dietitian work at that point. Yeah. So when were you diagnosed? Were you halfway through being a dietitian? Was it right at the beginning? Yeah, it was right at the very, very beginning. I had just moved to Seattle from New Mexico, and so I established care with a new provider. I was really struggling in school, like two or three weeks in. Then we revisited that diagnosis. Right. And when I'm really curious, by the way, your idea of you're not eating and as food is placed in front of you, that still feels real. Relate to that feeling. And I'm really curious when you got the diagnosis, I imagine, because it's not necessarily commonly talked about that you didn't necessarily think about it in terms of food, you probably thought about it in terms of work, which is what you're sort of saying. So when did the idea that food might be a factor with ADHD really come about? Yeah, I mean, I think it really came together and I started to sort of make sense of all the connections. When I had my first job out of grad school, I was working at an eating disorder treatment center. So I was in higher level of care. And so I was like eating lots of meals at work, and then going home and feeling like, okay, I'm not as hungry when I get home from work, because I've actually been eating. enough throughout the day so I'm not starving at night and kind of realizing like the executive function that goes into preparing meals and making sure that I had food around. So that was sort of the first clue. And then just watching clients in the treatment center who are really struggling, who are neurodivergent and kind of struggling with the same things. Is that common? Yeah, there's a big overlap with ADHD and eating disorders because of the difficulties with executive function. It's one of the big reasons. That's interesting because I'd heard there was an overlap between autism and eating disorders, especially in women. And so it's interesting to hear that it's the same. I mean, it makes sense. It is hard to eat, but I guess women are often underrepresented in lots of spaces. It's interesting to find that this space where women with ADHD who know they have ADHD could be found. Yeah, absolutely. And folks who don't know they have ADHD. oftentimes go into eating disorder treatment and then find out like, oh, it's the ADHD that's kind of underlying the eating disorder or perpetuating it. Yeah, that's really tough. So I'm going to ask you a little bit about your eating because I'm always really curious to know after having done so much work, we still have ADHD ourselves. So we still struggle with a lot of these things. So what is the most common? eating and making food routine that you've been able to stick with? I would say there's not one thing that I sustainably do without fail all of the time, unless I'm sort of going back to basics, right? Having permission to have really easy snacks has been really helpful. I would say taking some of the decision-making out of the process. My partner and I will have almost like theme nights for the week. So we'll do a Taco Tuesday and a Pasta Thursday. And so then all I have to do is decide what is the flavor profile, like what protein and veg is going to go with these meals. And then I'm not having to like come up with an entire meal idea for Tuesdays and Thursdays out of thin air. And it's also like not a hard and fast rule. So if we know like, Oh, I actually want this other thing on Tuesday or which can happen. Absolutely. Yes. Like tacos every week gets old. So it might be like, actually like we're going to go out to eat on Tuesday. We don't. have to have tacos, we don't have to have pasta. But there's that like flexible structure that I can rely on. Like I've already put that in place for myself. So I think that has made things so much easier. Yeah. That's so interesting. And now I'm really curious. What eating plans have you tried that you have not been able to stick to? Oh gosh. Yeah. I mean, definitely like the Pinterest meal planning, right? Where you plan out every breakfast, lunch and dinner. down to every single ingredient and try and go grocery shopping on the same day of the week every time and then meal prep everything, have everything chopped up, right? Kind of following this like rigid schedule that doesn't allow for any creativity or maybe doesn't allow for on Saturday, I'm exhausted because I've had a really long week and I don't want to go to the grocery store. So I would say yeah, anything that is super rigid, but then also... not having a plan isn't helpful, right? So having zero plan has definitely backfired as well. Yeah, that's so interesting. We talk about flexible structure in our coaching practice, and it sounds like a very similar thing with eating. And yeah, I do remember doing the whole prep thing. And just being like, well, that's going to sit in my fridge for a week while I eat other things. That's fun. Yep. Or like never got cut up. Finding the middle ground with ADHD can be really difficult. Yes, it can. Yeah. There's this idea of like, there's the right way to do it. And it's not really the right way for our brains. Yeah. So when you have somebody with you who says like, I have no time to make food. I, you know, I'm struggling with this is very similar things to what you've described for yourself. What are kind of the first things that you tend to do with them? So I guess for myself, when I feel like I don't have time, I will just like make a meal that is based out of snacks that has been, I think I mentioned earlier, that's been really, really helpful to have permission to do that, like not have a meal look like a quick meal. or just relying on like popping a frozen meal in the microwave can keep things really easy or having permission to like pick food up on the way home. And so I know this is true for me and I see it a lot with my clients. Like I used to tell myself that I didn't have time for making and eating food, but I've done a lot of work to really understand how important it is for my brain and body to be nourished. And so I've actually really prioritized eating and feeding myself and like, obviously, like... doesn't always go to plan and I don't always have time. But it's less frequent that I feel like I'm running low on time because I try and treat food, I try and treat eating as almost like an important appointment. So sometimes it's even on my calendar. If I know I'm gonna have a busy week, I'll schedule in, right? Like a break for lunch and treat it as an appointment. And because of that, I actually have more time to do things that I really enjoy. So it's actually created more time by prioritizing meals and snacks, which has been really great. So just try and have clients really think about it. What if this wasn't really, really important to you and figuring out what are your values? How is this supporting you in leaning into those values by feeding yourself? Yeah, and it kind of leads into my next question, which is you mentioned people with ADHD, but what are the common food struggles with ADHD that you do see? Yeah, I mean, there's so many of them. I think the top ones are... like chaotic eating patterns. A lot of people come to me because they're like not eating at all. And then all of a sudden they're eating all of the things. So there's like no routine, no consistency, no plan. Oftentimes, there's a lot of like disorganization in the kitchen. So ingredients can be like really hard to find in the refrigerator or the fridge is full of old food, right? The old meal that we never actually got to. Being called out right now. Me too. Me too. Yeah. Or like there isn't enough space. in the kitchen to cook or to prep or to eat. And so that can be a source of stress and shame for ADHDers, which often results in avoidance. And then that can lead to spending a lot of money on takeout and there's financial pressures there or eating foods that aren't actually energizing for the body because it's so much easier to just grab a bag of chips and nothing wrong with chips. I love chips. But not a sustainable dinner. So yeah, the disorganization... not planning ahead that can create again, like that financial strain, impulse purchasing at the store, going to the store without a plan. Another big one is like too many steps. So like what a neurotypical person thinks about, say like making rice, right? They just think about making rice. But for someone with ADHD, it's all the like micro steps. I have to like find the pot, I have to clean the pot, I have to get the rice out, I have to add the water, right? I love that you start with find the plot. and then clean the pot. There's no way the pot is already clean. Go and put away. Never. Yeah. Never. It is interesting that you mentioned that because there's a connection here really with food and finances because so much of what we do, we've talked about spending more than you wanted to because you didn't have a plan, spending money on meal prep and then not eating it because you didn't want to or it was boring or you never finished cutting it up. How much does that become a part of the conversation as well? Because I imagine it probably does. It becomes a huge part of the conversation. Oftentimes, when I'm talking to people about health, I like to think of it as more than just physiological or nutritional health. We have emotional health, mental health, relational health. But then also financial health is really important. When we feel financially stable and secure, it's easier to then show up in our lives and engage. And so when someone is really stressed about money and finances, it's hard to then make decisions that are in line with their values. And yeah, food is expensive, and it's getting so much more expensive. And especially takeout or delivery, there's like all of these added costs and food costs money, but it doesn't have to be so expensive. And so really working on like the stress there and addressing shame as well. Shame comes up around finances. There's a lot of overlap. Yeah, it talked to me a little bit about shame because I imagine that comes up around finances, but also around food. Because when we talk with clients often there's a feeling, which is very relatable of why can't I just do this. And sometimes with work, we can hide that for a while. But with food, if you're living with someone else, it can become very evident, especially if you're feeding other people or anything like that. So. Do you talk much about that as part of your practice? Absolutely. Yeah, I would say shame comes into almost every conversation I have with ADHDers. It is something that just like clouds so much of our life. And we live in this world that has expectations that don't work for us. And so then when we can't meet those expectations, right, we just feel like there's something inherently wrong with us. And so I think most ADHDers have this narrative of if I just tried harder, if I could just figure this out, if I could just have more motivation. And then we don't and then we feel shame about that. And so a lot of the work I do with clients is really like rewriting that narrative and acknowledging that like having ADHD is really hard. It's not like butterflies and unicorns and it never will be and that sucks. and then talking about self-compassion. And there's some research that shows that ADHDers actually have lower levels of self-compassion and higher levels of shame compared to neurotypical folks. We use this research as well. Oh yeah, yay! Thank you, yes. We're intimately familiar with it, yeah. We're in articles on it. So familiar. Yeah. Self-compassion is so hard, and I was very resistant to it for a long time. But then realizing how helpful that was in alleviating some of the shame, I just try and bring it in all of the time. And it's not me giving up or not trying harder. It's just like, okay, yeah, things are really hard. This is hard to live with. So I'm actually really interested to hear how you bring that to your strategies that you suggest to your clients. So how do you build in more self-compassionate strategies to eating and making food? I would say the biggest one is addressing perfectionism. ADHDers tend to be follow nothing thinkers and we want things to be perfect. We set these incredibly impossible expectations. This is a six course meal. Uh-huh, exactly. And then we don't meet those expectations. So starting by like lowering the bar to a reasonable level that we can actually meet. And one of my favorite things is from the body trust training and it's aimed for C plus work, right? Because when we're aiming for C plus, it's probably going to turn out more than fine. And that can be a really hard practice to just be like, you know, this isn't perfect. It might not even be great, but like it's good enough. And really being able to sit with the emotions around it being just good enough or it being slightly disappointing, but it works. I would say that's like the main way that I bring that self-compassion. It was just like, yeah, not perfect. That's okay. Yeah, totally. Those are really great strategies. It's really interesting hearing you talk about it. I'm just sort of wondering how your advice might be slightly different for someone who has kids or would it be different? In terms of like the self-compassion or. Yeah. And like the added complications of sort of making food for kids and sort of, oh, I don't like this. And, you know, what do you suggest around things like that for ADHDers who have children? Also the idea of kind of, you mentioned feeling good enough. And I mean, I've got a one year old, one and a half year old now. So we're just learning how to feed him. And the idea of feeling good enough and making him good enough food. I've never really worried about it for myself so much, but for him, it becomes much more of a big focus. Yeah, I'm not a parent and I have just like so much empathy and compassion for ADHD parents and then also for parents of ADHDers, right? Like I've been an ADHD kid and I know that looks hard, but I can imagine like it's just so much more work and so much more effort. And then there's so much pressure to do it a certain way. And I think that's true across parenting. There's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. And I think it's so similar to food where there actually isn't a right way to do it. And that if you're showing up with love for your kids and you're doing your best, that can be enough. And I think kids can be a really great model for intuitive eating. So when I'm working with ADHDers who are really struggling listen to their bodies or to just lean into intuitive eating, sort of watching their kids can be really, really helpful. And then also wanting to like be a good model for their kids around food can help people try and like let go of some of those food rules and create more freedom in their own relationship with food so that their kids can then have that as a model for growing up with food. What do you mean by watching their kids? What does that intuitive eating look like? So kids are incredibly intuitive when it comes to eating. So we're all born as intuitive eaters. So when we're babies, like we cry when we want food and then when we get food, we stop crying. And slowly over time. Hopefully, yeah. Slowly over time, that's eroded. We are told to not listen to our bodies, right? No, you shouldn't eat or you need to eat a few more bites or you need to finish this. And so over time, we lose that ability to trust our body's cues. But if you just let kids eat and figure it out, some days they'll eat a lot, sometimes they won't eat very much, but over the course of time, they'll get their food needs met. And being able to witness that as a parent, I think can be really powerful, right? Like if you can trust your kids to eat, then you might be able to lean into trusting your own body a little bit more and trusting that if you actually listen to hunger, you listen to what your body's asking for. Like your body knows what it needs. And so I think just being able to like see that in someone that you care about and someone that you love, I think can be really, really helpful. Yeah, definitely. If you like what you're listening to, then please subscribe. It really helps other people find out more about the ADHD skills lab podcast. Well, Sarah, your kids are a bit older than mine. Do you have any additional? curable questions in terms of things that can happen with food. Oh gosh. I mean, so just speaking from my personal experience, you know, I have a nine and a half year old, so we've sort of, we've sort of gotten to a comfortable place with food at this point, but I remember years, sort of five, six and seven were quite rough. They're figuring out their own sensory issues and they don't have the vocabulary to describe that. And so trying to meet my child where they were with that was kind of difficult because I wasn't even fully aware of ADHD at that time. So is that is that like a common experience? Is that just happening in my household? Yeah. You mean with like kids being really picky and just it feels like a lot of work. Yeah. Trying to teach them sort of the vocabulary to explain what's going on around food. Yeah. I mean, I can imagine that would be really hard. I know that. A lot of ADHDers who have ADHD kids really struggle with that because sensory, right? Sensory overwhelm, sensory processing can be really difficult. I don't do a lot of work with kids and so I don't know like what the best way of approaching that would be. But I think just like having open conversations, right? Like asking, what is it that you don't like about that? Is it gooey? Is it stinky? Right? Like kind of identifying, helping them build that vocabulary and not... just telling them that they have to eat it or being able to like learn with them or understand with them maybe would be an approach I would take. That's a really good point. I really related to when you said that kids could be a good mirror for you. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty much all of parenting for me so far. Yeah, good learning experience. Yeah. You know, I do have another curve ball question that I can throw out. It's sort of a way from the kid's space. But so, so far we've mostly been talking about sort of different ways to plan food and make food when you have ADHD, you're sort of trying to build in some more self-compassion to all of those practices as well. I would imagine you probably do more work in this space. How does it further complicate things when your ADHD client also has dietary restrictions? You know, I'm talking like celiac, you know, allergies, autoimmune conditions. Oh yeah, it further complicates it. Right? Because increasing access to food and having more options and more availability is so much of the work around meeting your food needs as an ADHDer. So when your food are limited, it can be really hard to have all those foods available. And so that would be one case where we would focus more on identifying like specific food that an ADHDer can eat. So in my model, like the first step is really just eating consistently and it doesn't matter what it is. Right, but if someone has celiac, like we really need to identify what are some like gluten free options that you can eat but not worrying about, right? Like the balance or what that looks like. But I definitely have a lot of ADHDers who have different conditions that require different dietary approaches and they just throw them out the door and then they don't feel good. And so having a lot of self-compassion, right? But like... Yeah, it's really, really hard to manage this. And like, there are gonna be days where you don't feel good and you haven't done anything wrong. You're not a bad person because of that. And just like doing the best that we can to really identify like what are foods that you can tolerate that you can have around. Right. Yeah, speaking as someone with celiac disease, I know that is a challenge. Yeah. Yeah, sort of the beginning of that process was a lot of like... Yeah, just sort of figuring out what tastes good and what I can consistently eat and then sort of taking it from there. So you know, that makes a lot of sense, but that is the standard approach. It makes me feel better. When I imagine there's like so much more planning that has to go into it for you, right? Like, yes, go to an airport and hope there will be something there. Absolutely. Yeah. Traveling with celiac is pretty difficult. That could be a whole different podcast episode. Yes. We'll have to have you back to talk dietary restrictions. Yeah. So like thinking ahead, thinking about like, where might this pose a problem and how do we come up with strategies that work for you, work for your brain? So it's definitely there's layers. Yeah. How important are snacks in what you're doing? You know, when we talk about it, I keep thinking, and that's where I put a snack. Yep. Yes. I think snacks are everything. I feel like being able to have really easy, quick options. Snacks often don't require any prep, sometimes just a little bit of prep. So they're just like more executive dysfunction friendly. I have days where I don't eat a meal until dinner, but I have like seven or eight snacks throughout the day. It makes me feel so much better. Yeah, yeah. Well, in most dietitians, right, would say like, well, that's not okay. You have to be eating like a set meal and then a snack and then a meal. But if the difference for me is, well, if I'm not going to make a meal, I'm not going to eat at all versus I'm going to eat seven or eight snacks, I think it's better to just be eating snacks than feeling like, well, I can't do it. So I'm not going to. That's so interesting. Is this a particularly neurodiverse? Like, is this an ADHD thing, this sort of snack focus? Because you mentioned that it's something that you're working with neurotypicals, you might, you've got dieticians who aren't as snack friendly and I have heard that. Yeah, I definitely see a lot of ADHDers who kind of just naturally eat a lot of snacks and then think that they're doing something wrong and then come to me and I'm like, great, like you're feeding yourself, that's awesome. There's nothing wrong with that. You're just being told that that's not the right way to do it. So I'd say ADHDers and really like anyone with neurodivergence, oftentimes snacks feel... more accessible, but then also you get like more variety and more novelty throughout the day. So rather than having to like eat an entire plate of something and get bored of it, you can have seven different times where you have something exciting. So there's dopamine that comes with that as well. Yeah. That's actually a thing that I hear a lot from some of my clients, particularly the ones who struggle with food. And, you know, they've seen doctors who have told them sort of to stop snacking, and that didn't work. But What did end up working for them was practicing more of like a mindful eating. So every time they would sit down, just sort of only eat, only be aware of the eating, is that also something that you discuss with clients or is there more to that than what I just described? I mean, I think that can be like a helpful experiment and oftentimes we actually like need distractions in order to be focused, which doesn't make sense to most people. But if someone is struggling to eat and struggling to stay focused on food, having a podcast playing or reading a book can be really helpful. So I like to say whatever works for you. If being mindful is really, really helpful, awesome. But that's not the only way to do it. I like to have people do a mindful moment. So at the very beginning, not having any distractions for one minute and just pausing, checking in. How hungry am I? Does this actually sound good? Is it missing anything? And then great like play your podcast, eat, and then maybe set a timer for 10 minutes. And then in 10 minutes, you check in again. And that can sometimes feel a little easier than just like, I'm going to be mindful for the next half hour because I couldn't do that. I don't think. But having very small blocks of time because it is really hard to be aware of our bodies, right? Like we don't have a lot of self-awareness in general. And so creating really small moments for that is kind of the approach I take. That's really great. That sounds like a much more ADHD friendly strategy. Yeah. And sort of similar to what we've talked about with mindfulness before Sarah is just doing it in small bites here. Right. Yeah. It's so great to talk to a dietician with ADHD, by the way, so much the way you're like, that wouldn't work. So we're going to do this. And I'm just like, yes. Awesome. So there's a lot of different articles and this is something, you know, I don't know how much experience you have with this and I just wanted to put it out there. If you go online, there's a bunch of different articles and web pages out there, which will tell you some foods hurt and some foods support executive functioning. Is there any truth to these articles? Is there anything that you have found is, is accurate? I mean, there's so much like flim flam out there. And especially when it comes to nutrition, right? Everyone has their opinion. Everyone has what they think is the right way to do things. And often that comes from personal experience, right? This worked for me, so it worked for everyone. So thinking about what is the source of this information. But even well-sourced information can be clouded by diet culture and fat phobia, and so much nutrition information is coming from that. place of there's quote, like one healthy way to do it, or you have to do this in order to watch your weight. And none of it's based in science. And it actually ends up leading to more harm than good. Because when we got caught up in the rules of diet culture, we get caught up in this desire to lose weight. And it's like, don't eat that, but you should eat this, right? That can be really overwhelming and stressful. And then we disconnect from our bodies and ADHD is... don't need any help with that. We're already overwhelmed. We're already disconnected from our bodies. And so trying to like follow these rules that aren't really rooted in a lot of science can be more harmful. And then really meeting an ADHD or food needs, those basic needs is actually gonna be more helpful and more supportive of overall health and wellbeing than like nitpicking specific nutrients. And there are foods and nutrients that support brain health. But that is something that I encourage clients to set on the back burner. We can get to that because all of the fruits and vegetables in the world aren't going to support your pain if you're not eating enough. Or if you're eating only every 7 hours and your blood sugar is tanking, the nutrients aren't going to be helpful. So that's the last step and that's what I call gentle nutrition. So yes, there are foods that can be helpful and it tends to not be the focus until later on. That's so interesting. Yeah. Just for the sake of conversation, what would some of those foods be? I mean, there's some conflicting research that omega-3 fatty acids can support brain health. There's some research that shows, like, no, not at all. And there's some research that says, yes, it's helpful. Nutrition research is really fun. Right, yes. Yeah. What we've learned in nutrition is that we know nothing. I mean, omega-3s can be really great. They're not going to be harmful, right? that's really helpful. Things with magnesium can be really great. Chocolate is a great source of magnesium. So I encourage people, but if they like chocolate and they want to eat it, they do. But often it's more about thinking again, like about blood sugar, right? Like getting enough protein. And we actually don't need as much protein as most diet advice would say that we do. But having protein with something like the carbohydrate can be really helpful. for balancing blood sugar. So if you just eat pretzels, you might find that like, it's not energizing and you kind of feel like you crash in 10 minutes and you don't feel good. But if you have like pretzels and a cheese stick, you might find like, Oh, this actually lasts longer. So typically, it's more about like, how do we kind of combine foods and eat them in a way that is going to support the lasting power. And if you're like eating a variety of foods and you're eating frequently throughout the day, you're probably getting enough nutrients to support your brain and there's probably not like one nutrient that's going to make that big of a difference. That's so interesting. Very, very cool. Awesome.

Well, I'm going to round it out today with some ADHD quick questions. They're not actually that quick. I need to think of another name for that. Tell me about one professional achievement that you are the most proud of. I mean, I guess. creating a successful practice with multiple dieticians is not something that I ever saw myself doing. I think really putting the time and energy into creating that like eating with ADHD model, the whole eating with ADHD approach is kind of my baby that I've grown over the years. And I do feel really proud of it when I first started, like no one was talking about nutrition and ADHD. And so yeah, I feel proud about breaking the ground on that and making something that is supporting a lot of people every day. Yeah, 100%. And on the other side, is there a professional failure that has embarrassed you and how did you deal with that? When you sent me this question, it took me a while to think about. I think I've gotten to a place where I often just laugh at myself and I'm like, whatever, that wasn't a failure, it was learning, blah, blah. But realistically, I used to not pay myself for working in my business. And I would just like take out small amounts of money to kind of pay the bills. And I always felt really stressed out, frustrated. And it never occurred to me that I could actually pay myself out of my business because as therapists and dietitians were not taught about that sort of thing. And then my neurotypical friend who's a therapist pointed it out and helped me figure out how to pay myself. And it's made a huge difference. And I was a little embarrassed by that, but it's okay. It's just part of learning, especially with the business. It's huge. Yeah. That's another podcast. And usually I ask what your favorite dopamine activity is, but I want to ask what your favorite go-to. food is, dopamine food? I love sour, crunchy, like vinegary foods. And so I get a lot of dopamine from eating like a crunchy pickle, anything pickled, pepperoncini is anything that kind of like has a thing to it. I think provides a lot of dopamine for me. For a lot of people, it's more about the sensory experience. So that's why I said something that's like tangy using a crunchy, something that has a lot of different. sensory experience will often release more dopamine. Yeah, that's so true. I think I go with like a really, really green apple when I'm in that kind of space for a similar reason. Yeah, Sarah, I'm curious what yours is, if you have one. Gosh, I feel like I need so much variety that it like, you know, and it really depends on sort of how much time I have. Cause if I'm pressed for time, it's gonna be grapes and some cheese that I've cut up. But if I... have a lot more time. Maybe it's like some graham crackers with peanut butter and Nutella on it. I'm definitely more of a sweet person. Although I do miss like sour gummies sometimes. Oh, sour gummies are the best. I'm hungry. If you had an ADHD life motto, what would that be? I think something. that I say to myself and then to my clients again and again, is that you are allowed to make your life easier. You don't have to be swimming upstream all of the time, and it's okay to have accommodations and use life hacks or what people would consider cheating. It's not cheating, making your life easier is totally acceptable. That's awesome. That's a great motto. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story. and your really wonderful ADHD skills with us today. Where can people find out more about you and what you do? The best place to find me is on my website. So it's www.wiseheartnutrition.com. And there are links there to my Instagram, my Facebook, and then our group membership program, which is like an Eating with ADHD Community and it has like a foundation course. So yeah, you can kind of find everything there. That's awesome. Thanks, Alita. It's so great to have you on. We might do this again because we have so many questions about food. Yes, I'd love to come back. Thank you. It was really fun getting to finally connect with you and get to talk to both of you. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much for letting me just sort of throw you some curveballs today. I appreciate that. I love it. I love it.

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