Writing with ADHD: How to get started and stay consistent with Katy Forde

Hi, we are the ADHD Skills Lab podcast. My name is Skye. And my name is Sarah. And we will be your hosts chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills and working through struggles in their lives. You might know us from Unconventional Organization, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along and we're going to chat through it together.

Today, I have the great pleasure of talking to somebody who is a writer, director, and producer, but also a previous client of mine last year, Katy Forde. Katy and her partner founded Musical Theatre Australia in 2018. They were able to create musicals that celebrate diverse voices, including their musical, A Girl's Guide to World War, which won a major Matilda Award for best new Australian work. and has had sellout sessions, and now has actually had a grant as of this year, $75,000 grant from the Queensland Arts Showcase Program, which means that they are preparing the show for touring and licensing and publications. I'm so excited to talk about that and to chat to you again, Katie. Great to see you. It's just so lovely to see you again, Skye. The coaching that we did together has had so many positive impacts. really glad to be able to be part of this podcast. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, it's really cool. It's very exciting to see where you've come. Obviously, we spoke last year and so now to have won the grant and to be able to come back and actually share some of the strategies that you're using and where you've gone since then, I'm very excited to talk about it with you. Yeah, I'm excited too. So shall we start by just asking where are you based? I'm from Queensland in Australia. My partner, Aletheia and I, we live in Malaney, which is a beautiful little country town up in the lands of the Jinna Barrow people up in the Sunshine Coast hinterland, gorgeous little town full of bookshops and coffee shops and cheese. Awesome. And how did you come to be diagnosed with ADHD? Were you diagnosed early? Was it a late diagnosis for you? Yeah. So like a lot of women, I was diagnosed very late in my forties. It was such a chance occurrence because I was reading the ABC news and there was an article saying women in their older years are getting diagnosed at greater rates with ADHD and they didn't know they had ADHD all their lives. And I was like, oh, those poor women, that's so hard for them. And I started reading the article and I was like, oh my God, like everything in the article was applicable to me. And I kind of held it a bit close to my chest for a while because it felt like a, I don't know, like a really huge cliff that I was about to jump off. Like am I someone with ADHD? I like now I've learned so much more since then, but at first I was like, is this gonna stigmatize me? What does this mean? And then the next step, like a lot of people was trying to get the diagnosis, which was its own tricky journey. Yeah, the executive functioning step. Oh my Lord. I'm getting it. Yeah. And also because I had responses from GPs, like, you don't have ADHD. ADHD is a learning disability and you, you know, obviously you don't have a learning disability and you're always on time for appointments. So how could you have ADHD? And. the diagnosis that I got from GPs was that I had anxiety. And I've got a bit of a bone to pick with that because the questionnaire that they use to test whether you have anxiety, it's a test to see if you have one of two things, anxiety or depression. And that is it, you know? I've got questions on the test, things like, during the last 30 days, how often did you feel restless during the last 30 days. How often did you feel like you couldn't sit still? How often did you feel that everything was an effort? And I'm like, oh, all the time, all the time, all the time, hitting the criteria all the time. And the GP is like, oh, well, anxiety, you know, and you see the depression or anxiety and you've got anxiety, but it's like they're trying to find out if you're a fish and saying, do you like swimming in the ocean? And you're like, yeah, all the time. And they're like, okay, well, then you're a salmon. But what if you're not a salmon? What if you're a trout or a dolphin or something? You only get this binary choice of anxiety or depression. Yeah. A lot of people have said that. It's annoying. Hey. Yeah. I've heard from a lot of women. Yeah. And then you get this truckload of anti-anxiety medication pumped into you more and more and more, because obviously it's not doing anything. That was really annoying as well, because coming off. that medication is its own horrible nightmare. So when were you able to actually get the diagnosis of ADHD? When did that shift over? Like a lot of people, I started listening to every podcast under the sun about ADHD. I was like, this is freaking, I know it is. So I finally just put my foot down and I said, send me to a psychiatrist. Then it was all smooth sailing because it was clear as the nose on my face. And so it was lovely from there on in, but the first, you know, it was probably a good year between reading that article and finally getting to see a psychiatrist. Yeah, no, totally. And now your job that you have, which just shifted a little bit, because I think when we met last time, it was a, it was a hope. And a job, and now it's a job. So the job that you have, the director writer, it's so interesting, such a cool job, tell me a little bit about what your day to day life looks like now. Yeah. It's a little different at the moment because I, I've had long COVID this year and that's changed things around a little bit, but it's still kind of interesting to talk about because. I remember when you were coaching me and you said, oh, do you have trouble getting up in the morning? And I was like, oh gosh, no, because I've got dogs and they get me out of bed at 7 a.m. And now getting out of bed is harder, but the dogs have learned to cope with that. So they let me have a slow start to the day. But even so, I still used strategies that I learned with you, even with the long COVID. So even though there wasn't much for a while that I could do, I still. planned the day and that took away a lot of the anxiety about the fact that I wasn't able to do as much as I wanted to do. Because obviously lying on the couch is not easy. I do not like sitting still, but I would actually literally write in the captain's log, which I'm sure we'll get to talk about, lie on the couch. And so then it was a task. The days get up, have brekkie, walk the dogs, and then go into my study and not start work, which was a huge breakthrough for me with the coaching was that I didn't have to sit down and start work because if that was the case, I would be not sitting down at all. But you taught me to sit down and do something fun to start. And so the study and the keyboard and the computer. started looking less like a terrifying monster and more like something more inviting. And you'd always say to me, stop and have lunch and I still don't do that. I remember it was a struggle. It was a struggle. I bring a muesli bar in. I actually have a little list on my phone of... I'm not sure if you can hear me. what I need to bring into the study to prepare for the day. It's my cup of tea and my muesli bar and my water. You've got those snacks. Yeah. I bring it all in so it's here. I don't have to keep getting up. If you break that concentration, it's hard to get back. What are you doing now? Because for a lot of people, the idea of being a director, being a writer, that kind of thing, it's such a cool. idea but there's a lot of mystery to it. What would you say that you're currently working on as somebody who's doing this? Are you rewriting a girl's guide to World War at the moment? Yeah. What's really lovely is that we did get this funding to prepare the show for licensing and publication. It's already been licensed once by a drama school at a university in Victoria. and it's going to be put on next year at QPAC at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre by the Queensland Conservatorium Musical Theatre students. And what's the feedback I'm getting from people who wanna license the show is that they need more cast members, which is like heaven to my ears because. The whole of my writing career has been people telling me, don't write big musicals. Australia can't afford big musicals. Keep your musicals small. And I don't like small musicals. And the musical that Girls Gone to World War, which is the one that was kind of like our breakaway success, it's written for eight actors, which is still a lot by Australian standards. But now I get to rewrite it for 20. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Well, yeah. The name alone, you're like, World War. Yeah, I know. Let's go here. Let's do this. Let's have a chorus. Yeah. And we got funding for a choreographer as well, which is like, I'm so, so stoked about that. That was from our local council, the Sunshine Coast Council, Regional Arts Development Fund gave us funding to add choreo to the show, which is heaven on a stick. Nice. Adding choreo to the show before it goes out on tour next year. around the state and also working on that licensing arm. So we're now looking at two different income streams, one from touring and one from licensing the show. I sound like I know what I'm talking about now, Skye. Yeah. It's like I've got a grip on things. Yeah. Which I didn't when we first started out. Well, it is funny because, you know, yeah, when we started out, and for those who are listening, we haven't spoken since we last, you know, I think we emailed a few times, but we haven't really had a chance to catch up. And last time, you know, when we were last year, there was a sense of like, a bit of imposter syndrome around going to your office and spending that time writing and taking that time. I was going through our notes recently because I was asked to do a podcast about writing and we've done so much writing together. I was looking at the notes again and it was, do I get to do this? Do I get to say, this is my time, we're rewriting this, we're doing this. And it sounds like since then, we talked about the idea that right now, no one's paying you to do it, or if they're paying you, they're not paying you very much, but you do it because you know that in the future, if you keep going, that's very likely to be a possibility. And now it is. So it's very Oh my gosh, we were just, my partner, Aletheia, and I were just talking about this the other day because we honestly haven't made a cent up until this year and it's all been paid for out of our own pockets. And now being able to actually generate an income from it is beautiful because it means that we can then write more musicals, you know, it becomes a sustainable business. And exactly what you were saying, I remember when we were starting out, everything. felt more important than me writing. So if a friend asked me for coffee, it was like, well, that's more important than me writing because I really should go and have coffee with a friend because why should I be allowed to stay home and write when I should be having coffee with a friend? And you were like, if you don't treat your business like a business, nobody else is gonna treat your business like a business. And it really stuck in my head and I pulled my socks up and I was like, right, okay, I've got to take myself seriously? and yeah, it's made a huge difference. Yeah. The universe was like, well done, here's everything you need to do it. That's right. No, it's very cool. How did that go as well? Because I know when we talked last time as well, we talked a little bit about executive functioning strategies because there was a lot of, and there always is with this kind of business, there's a lot of like you want to do the deep writing, but there's also a lot of. documentation to do and finding time to do both of those. And clearly you did a good job with that because you got the grant. Yeah, obviously it's been a bit different since the COVID because that actually affected my ability to be creative. But as it's starting to come back, I'm using those strategies again, where I do block out time in the day for writing. And there's a technique that you came up with for me. which was life-changing. And what's so great about your coaching is that it is so individualized for each person. And I said to you that writing feels like standing at the edge of the pool and not wanting to jump in because I know it's gonna be cold for a second. Once I'm in, I'm fine and I never wanna get out, but I don't wanna jump in. And you came up with this strategy where I go into my where I write my captain's log in one note and I just write anything. So instead of having to go into the script and go, okay, I need to rewrite act two, scene three, rah rah. I start off by just writing anything like a poem or a sentence or something. And that's the way that I can slide slowly into the pool rather than jumping in and it's wonderful. I use it all the time, Skye. It's just the best. Oh, no, I'm really glad to hear that. And it's also funny because I'm like, because a lot of what we do, in fact, I think I was asked about this morning is taking the research and then obviously working with individuals and then iterating it and developing new processes. And since working with you, that process has become part of the get in focus routine, like that tinkering element. And a lot of people use that now actually. So it's interesting to go back and see. Yeah, so there's a lot of people because of the concept of, because there is that piece missing in terms of like, emotional regulation, like you said, it's going to feel bad and there's a lot of feelings around it and just letting yourself go like, it's fine, we're just tinkering, we're just playing. That's it, no pressure. Yeah, just enjoy it. If this is what, writing is what I love. and just explore that aspect of it, the fact that you love it. No one's ever going to read this little silly poem that you wrote. Yeah. And it's just a gentle way to slide into the pool. And sometimes I think, funnily enough, it becomes part of it or it becomes an element of it or something. Even if it's like no one's going to read it, but somehow it can help you start to ideate and things like that. Absolutely. I mean, it's a muscle, isn't it? And any kind of flexing of that muscle is going to help overall. So absolutely. Yeah. Definitely. I feel like we've just jumped straight in, but I'm going to go back and ask you, so when you initially reached out to unconventional organization, what ADHD support were you looking for? What prompted you to search for ADHD coaching? It's a really interesting question because I can't quite remember. I feel like it was everything. It was like, I didn't know what I didn't know. All I knew was that I was struggling and kind of running in the spot. And, and I remember a friend of mine saying to me, why haven't you done anything for the last few years? Why haven't you written anything? You know, and I didn't have an answer. And obviously now I know it was the ADHD, but I couldn't understand why nothing was happening when I really, really wanted it to, so it was, it was kind of like. there possibly may be strategies that would help me achieve these things that I want to achieve? Maybe. Could there be? Possibly, maybe. And then I did look at a lot of different coaches to see what they could offer. But you were the one who made me understand that what you were going to give me was a targeted approach for my specific queries and my specific needs and my specific goals. And as we started the coaching process, you were... teasing out what it was that I needed. I didn't even know what it was that I needed. Yeah, it was that journey of working out how to turn this static of time into something that I can actually hold in my hands and take apart and see what it is that I want to achieve. Yeah, and it is interesting you talk about time because I think that's something we did talk about a lot because there was that sense of like, especially when you're a writer. and time you spend writing and time you actually spend writing and time you plan to spend writing. It can feel very overwhelming. Absolutely, yeah. And I really resisted knowing about time. Like when we first started, I didn't have a watch. Yeah, points to her watch. Yeah. I didn't have an hourglass. Oh, yeah. I actually was really resistant to knowing what time of day it was. And I think that's because I had no way of understanding how to take time apart and chunk it and work backwards from goals and all of those things that. that I learned through the coaching. So I was like, I don't want any part of time. I don't want it. I don't want to know about it, but now I've become, it's my friend. Now I understand it now. Yeah. Well, it's not just, I think we talked about this as well. It's not just there to tell you that you're not doing enough or that you're not doing it right. Cause I think a lot of people struggle with this. I think there's t-shirts, you know, you should be writing. You should be working. And so with that comes, you know, well, if I don't look at time passing, then I don't really know how much writing I haven't done essentially. That's exactly right. Like it did feel like time was the enemy, so I didn't want to know about it. But yeah, time isn't the enemy. And I don't wrap myself over the knuckles about. you know, you have to start at 9 a.m. And that might work for some people, but for me, it's more about when I sit down for the day, I understand what tasks I need to achieve that day and what amount of time that's going to take. And whether I start at 9 a.m. or I start at 11 a.m. and work through till 8 p.m., that works for me, you know? Like, I allow myself that flexibility. 

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We've touched on a number of them, but are there any particular, you know, routines, strategies that are now in your toolbox, like very much, these are your go-to? Yeah. The captain's log is something I use every single day. So that's been a life changer for me to be able to write out what I need to do that day and just a sidebar of that or part of that. was when you said to me, if I am resistant to doing something, it might be because you don't understand what it is exactly you're supposed to do. And that really changed things for me. So anytime I feel that rising panic of, I don't know how to write this email, I don't know how to do this brand or whatever it is, I'll go into the captain's log and I will get really granular. I've talked about this with non-ADHD people and they think I'm insane. But it really helps me to say things like, open up Word, read the first paragraph of the e-mail, write down a bulleted list of what is in that e-mail and how you will respond to that. The other thing, the other go-to strategy is, you said to me that I hyper-focus on parts of projects. So I will. you know, maybe spend, you know, a whole day just rewriting one scene or half a scene. And you said it was like, I was working on creating a sculpture of a full human and only sculpting, you know, the pinky toe. Um, and that's really helped me as well. Like to remember that, um, I need to kind of fly out like an eagle. sometimes and see the full breadth of the project and not get hyper-focused on tiny little aspects. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think there's a reason that metaphor works so well. It's like something I was taught a lot in art school, you know, perspective. It's very hard to do if you're zoomed in on one detail, but there's something about ADHD and hyper-focus where, you know, sometimes it does work depending on the size of the project. Sometimes we convince ourselves, if I just don't do anything else for the next two days, I'm going to nail this pinky toe and it's going to be sorted. That's right. Yeah. And also, it's not exactly the same thing, but it's that funny thing of you do everything else except the thing you should be doing. You know that thing that you just like... Yeah, that can also be the case. Sometimes you need to zoom out to see that you're missing the thing. Yeah. You're like, well, that's not, that's going to be covered up anyway. That's not actually relevant. Yeah. It's like, if we were using the, the sculpting analogy, it's like you spend ages picking the right tools or making sure they're clean or, you know, your work spaces has the right light instead of actually going to work on the sculpture. And that can be really tough with writing, particularly, you know, when we work with writers, it's always about cool. So how many hours this week we're spending writing. And that has to be a conversation because it's so easy to be like, well, this week I did so much. I called people, I made contact with this. I thought about this. I outlined that, but like, did you do writing? No. Yes. Oh my gosh. It's so true. Because it's your heart's love, it's so tender and almost sore. Like when you start writing, like it almost hurts. And so you, you do the easier things first. And the weird thing is that once you're in there writing, you're fine. You're absolutely fine. Yeah. But it's that first plunge is the hardest. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So, you know, how do you feel today about? managing your ADHD and managing all of these different pieces? I'm so much better at a lot of things. I've got the Google Calendar, I use Miro that you taught me to use, and it allows me to break apart projects, work backwards from deadlines, I've got alerts set up for when grants are due in. It was all just fuzzy before, it was all just amorphous. But now there's actual steps to where, where it is that we want to go. So yes, I feel a lot more confident. That's awesome. Yeah. So thanks. Yeah. No, that's great. Like I said, we haven't chatted for a while, so it's like, hopefully good. That is the case. Yeah. I mean, even things like this podcast, my time, it's 1 PM and in the past. I would be running so late to sit down for this. I probably would have forgotten it was on because I wouldn't have put it in my calendar until maybe you sent me a reminder email or whatever, but knowing things like that, I have to have transition periods that things it sounds so, so simple, but things take time. You know, when do I get back from walking the dogs? Then I have to feed the dogs. Then I've got to send a few emails and then all of those things take time. But in the past, it really was just like static, static. Oh crap. 1pm, you know, and you always feel like you're running five steps behind. Yeah. And I will say you sent me an email yesterday saying, I'm looking forward to the park. So you didn't even wait for the reminder email. That's guy. That is unheard of a year ago. That would never have happened. So yes, it's a whole new world to quote Aladdin. So yes. Yeah. No, no worries at all. But what would you, you know, what would you say then to other people with ADHD who are maybe listening to this who they're starting to pursue a similar path, you know, and they're feeling maybe a bit discouraged, a bit lost, sort of similar to how you might've felt, you know, a year or two ago. You know, medication is one thing, but coaching is vital. I think probably a lot of us late ADHDers go around spotting it in other people, who then go on to get diagnoses. The thing I say to them, yeah, you know, you're gonna get medicated, that's great, but... you've gone through your whole life, not knowing how to organize your time or even how to conceive of time, and you will need coaching. And so I think that is number one. And number two, just kind of specifically to those people who wanna be writers or wanna be working in the arts, this is a really weird suggestion, but I would suggest going for grants because that's a deadline for you. And whether or not you get it, it doesn't really matter, but it forces you to work to a deadline, which of course, you know, ADHD people, we love that adrenaline of a deadline, even though we hate it, we love it. And it makes you clarify your goals and articulate what it is exactly that you want to do. So it does force you to turn this cloudy idea into something more. crystallized and a lot of people in the arts really hate grants and they stop going for grants and all that kind of thing and I understand that but for me they're a way of they're kind of like pebbles or stepping stones that help me jump from one goal to another whether or not I end up getting the grant or not. Yeah, no I think that's a good way to think about it if you think about it at least as a thing that's you know taking up time that you could rather spend writing if you can find a way to fold. the grant writing process into the goals you already have so that you just have them as an additional, like you said, that bumper of like, but it's due in October or whenever. That can help you to just keep focused. Yes, exactly. And with the grant writing, because since the coaching, I've got so much better at it. And my tip would be to read the whole grant first and not just focus on question one. Because you get to the fifth page of the grant and they say, Oh, where are your three supporting letters? And then you, you know, you might have an hour to get three people to write you supporting letters before the grants do. So yeah. I love that. Yeah. That's just something that's been helpful for me to give myself deadlines like that. Yeah. No, super great. I mean, really good to have those practical strategies because that feeling lost piece can be really tricky. When you're writing and you're doing it yourself and you're taking it time for yourself and you're telling everybody like, oh no, this is important, but then you actually have to tell yourself it's important as well. Yes, you do. It's paramount to honor this thing that you want to do and to not put it at the bottom of the list like so many people in the arts. do. Yeah, you really do have to go. No, this is important to me. I, a friend of mine gave me a book, which is called, Oh, I'm going to get it wrong. Now 4,000 weeks. Is that right? Yes. It's called 4,000 weeks. Yeah. Someone recommended that book to me as well. Yeah. Cause that's terrifying that you want to get 4,000 weeks in your life. You're done. You know, any kind of thought like that, I think is good for an ADHD because it makes you go, well, Do I want to spend this day doing something that is peripheral or doesn't serve my greatest love? Or do I actually want to do that thing that when I'm on my deathbed, I'm like, thank God, thank God. I made a bigger, like the play got bigger. They made me write it for more people. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, totally. Awesome. Well, I just have a few ADHD skills lab. questions for you. They're just questions we ask everybody. So tell us about one professional achievement that you're the most proud of. The first thing that came to my mind, professional is a weird term for me because writing is, it's like my marrow, you know, like it's my bone structure and my muscles and my teeth and everything. That doesn't feel like something external to me. So an achievement that I'm most proud of. proud of in writing was actually when Leafy and I wrote our first song together. And it was before we were together romantically and we, you know, she's good at music and I've got the words and we thought, you know, maybe we could write a musical together. And so we, we wrote one song and we were just obsessed with ourselves. Like we were just like, oh, this is the best thing. And we lay on the floor. just listening to this song, listening to the recording over and over and over, this song that we'd written, I think for like six hours. And I felt, I felt like it was the beginning of something. Like it was then that I thought this is it. This is what I should be doing. Writing musicals would leave me forever. So that first song I wrote, I think is, is the one I'm most proud of. Oh, what a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. No, that's awesome. And to just jump you straight into another feeling, is there a professional failure that embarrasses you and how, how did you deal with that? Yes. I thought about, was I brave enough to tell you about the time that I got threatened with legal action for not doing a really basic administrative And I'm not going to tell you that one because it's so embarrassing. Like it was the most embarrassing. Don't worry. You don't have to. There's no pressure. To be fair to everybody listening, I did say at the beginning that there was no pressure with these questions. Oh my God. But it's kind of in the same vein. Okay. So every time that I hand scripts out to the actors, I bugger it up. I get the pages out of order. I've stapled it wrong. Somebody gets. two pages 16, somebody else doesn't get any page 16, and some of the pages are upside down. I bring the scripts downstairs to the actors because our rehearsal space is under our house. It's like walking towards the guillotine because I know I have buggered it up. I know I have, no matter how hard I try. I hand them out to the actors, like whatever scenes that I've rewritten. Then it starts, the actors like, No, page 16. Oh, I've got, I've got two page 16s. I, someone got the stapler thingy so I can pull out my page 16. Oh, I think I've got the old X3. Did you mean to print out the old X3? And it's like, I'm a puddle. Like I am a puddle of humiliation on the floor because like I'm able to do this big thing of writing a show, but I can't do this basic, basic thing of printing out the scripts, the writer. And it's so humiliating. Yeah, it can be really tough. I often say to people, you know, with ADHD, it feels like hard things are easy and easy things are hard. Yes, that's it. And that is very much true. And yeah, definitely can relate. And, you know, one of the reasons that, you know, I appreciate you sharing that story is because sometimes when we have people on the podcast and they talk about how everything's going and how, you know, it can be easy to think, oh, you must've just fixed everything. And it's like, no, no. No. There are still things going on. That's right. Oh yeah. There's some things that I'll never be good at. And I just have to accept that. But it's really interesting because it's such a tiny thing and the laughter that ensues and the gentle ribbing that I'm hopeless at this sort of thing. It's that, what's it called that thing ADHD people have when they're over sensitive? Rejection sensitivity. Yes. It's rejection sensitivity. It is my, it's that pain point for me that, um, when I mess up on something so simple, I get overly humiliated and I need to, um, I need to just go right with that. It's just you, Katie. That's the way it is. Yeah. It can be hard. But I think the reason that I put those two questions together is sometimes it's nice to be like, okay, like, these are the professional failures that I have, they still are going to exist, they're not going to disappear forever. We're not going to be, we don't reach perfection, but we do reach a place where we spend the time that we have doing the things that we love, the things that are in our wheelhouse, and we try and delegate as much as possible. one day you might have somebody else print them. But you don't do that by saying, oh, I can't believe this. I'm going to dedicate the rest of my life to stapling things accurately. You do that by moving in the direction of your strengths and managing those struggles. That's absolutely true. And one of the things that we've got this year is our first employee, which we've never had before, who's a marketing assistant and an administration but I paid her wrong for the first few months. Like, you know, like doing payroll. Can you do this part? Can this be part of your job? Yeah, can you pay yourself, please? Like, yeah, like it's those tasks like getting the tax in on time or returning forms in a timely manner to the government, all that sort of stuff. That's really, really hard. But like you say, we now have got an employee now. So, yeah, some of those things can be delegated, which is fabulous. Yeah, no, that's awesome. And if you had an ADHD life motto, what would it be? It doesn't have to be perfect one. It probably will change over time, but just what one would you choose? Yeah. Well, I think it kind of comes out of what we were just talking about. And I think my motto that I tell myself is would you really want to be someone else? Would you really want to be someone who can staple the scripts the right way up? Or would you prefer being the person who can write the scripts? Yeah. Even though it's hard sometimes to have ADHD, would you really give up the way that your brain works, the way that it can connect things together and the way that it can focus on the things that it loves? And would you give up being passionate and enthusiastic and weird? You know, would you give up loving things as deeply as you do, just so you can get your tax in on time? Would you really? You're going to say, all right, yeah, all right, I'm going to give all of that up. I'm not threatened with legal action. That would be my advice. Would you really change who you are? Even in those darkest moments, there's still something wonderful about this. Yeah. No, that's awesome. That's such a great motto. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time, Katie, to share your story. to share your wonderful skills with us. Tell people about what you've got going on, where they can find you. We have a website which is called musicaltheatreaustralia.com and theater is spelled the Australian way. We've got musical theater Oz on Facebook. We've got a girl's guide to World War on Instagram. So yeah, come and say hi. And yeah, we'd love to talk to any of your listeners. So that'd be great. Yeah, no, I'm sure anybody, we have a number of listeners in Australia and even overseas people who are wannabe writers who are gonna find this, I know are gonna find this very inspiring. So it's been wonderful to talk to you, Katie. Come and have a chat. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Talking to you, Skye, and I'm coming back for you, Skye. I want more coaching. I've got things that I want to talk to you about, so I'm coming back. So I'm coming back. Sounds good, sounds awesome. I can't wait for the next iteration of whatever it becomes, yeah. Thank you so much. I've really loved talking to you again. It's been wonderful. 

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