Navigating Life with ADHD: A Conversation with Anna Frost

Hi, we are the ADHD Skills Lab podcast. My name is Skye. And my name is Sarah. And we will be your hosts, chatting to you about practical ADHD strategies you can use, the research behind some of these strategies, as well as interviewing other professionals with ADHD about how they've developed skills and working through struggles in their lives. You might know us from Unconventional Organization, where we talk about this kind of stuff all day long. So we're super excited to have you along and we're going to chat through it together. 

Today, I have the privilege of speaking to Anna Frost. Anna is a poll instructor and contortion coach that has performed for audiences at Glastonbury Festival for fashion designer, Julian McDonald and the band Queen, which was completely, I was like, okay, we need to talk about that at some point. She has been doing poll for nine years. We recently connected when she started taking our ADHD Academy online courses and posting about her experiences to her followers on Instagram. So welcome. It's really, really happy on the podcast, Anna. Yeah, super happy to be here. It's such an honor to be asked. Yeah, well, no, it was great. I was like, we have to talk about what it is you do, and also a little bit about being ADHD and then doing these kind of very interesting jobs. So let's start with just where you're based. Where are you based at the moment? So I'm in Bristol in the UK. It's a really fun, fun city. There's always cool stuff going on. We currently are in the middle of summer having the most torrential rain I think I've ever seen in my life. Maybe wouldn't recommend visiting right now, but generally it's a lovely place to be. I feel like that's a common experience with the UK though, people saying visit but not right now. Yeah. Well, summer is always fun because it's always either like 800 degrees and it's so hot that you can't do anything or it's like it is now. Yeah, you're just soggy the whole time. So when were you diagnosed with ADHD? What was your diagnosis experience like? So I was diagnosed when I was, I think about 17. I always struggled at school, as I'm sure every ADHD person that you have on this podcast says. But I did have quite a tough time. I know the educational systems are different all across the world. What we have here is you have primary school, which is until you're about 10 or 11. And then when you're 11, 12, you go to secondary school. You do that up until 16. And then you have the choice to do your A levels, which is higher education. When you're 17 and 18, you can go to university after that. Or when you're 16, 17, you can leave school and you can do degree programs, going to work, things like that. And the secondary school that I went to was a grammar school. And again, I'm not sure how many other countries have this. I'm not sure how much longer England will have it, to be honest. But essentially, grammar schools, you take an exam when you enter and they take the top one or two percent scorers. There's a very heavy focus on academic ability, on basically you're taken as the brightest kids they can find and the most intelligent kids they can find. And they very much try and focus on that. Interesting. So did they put those people in different schools? Is that how it works? Yeah, it's a whole different school. You have to apply for grammar schools. They just take the top couple of percent of people. That's the kind of school that I went to where it was an all girls grammar school. There's a very big focus on academic performance. And it's actually funny to look back on now. But I... spent the majority of my school life on the national gifted and talented register for several of my subjects and also on the school's special needs list. I relate to that. I actually relate to that. She's always in trouble. It's funny to look back on that no one kind of went, okay, well, here's this one thing and here's this other thing. Maybe there's a problem here. Could this be a spiky profile? Yeah, maybe there is something here. Bless them, they actually hired a woman to help me with my organization. And that was a decision before maybe there's some neuro spicy going on here. Did that help? I'm curious. What is that? No, a poor woman. that poor woman must have had the most horrible time. She must have gone home to her family after all of our meetings and been like, what is wrong with this child? I gave her a planner. I don't understand. Honestly, that poor woman. Yeah, she must have been losing her mind. But, you know, so was I. What a pleasure. So, you know, I was always in trouble at school, you know, never did my homework. I really struggled to pay attention. Even things that I really cared about, I just couldn't. But in that kind of environment, you have someone standing over you at all times. And I was kind of forced to perform to the best of my ability at that time. It's always frustrating when you look back at situations like that and think about how differently your life potentially could have turned out if you'd have had a diagnosis earlier and if these things have been picked up on earlier. But the point that I had to start making decisions about further education and things like that, I decided that I wouldn't cope with university. which is a shame because I was performing incredibly well in terms of intelligence testing and all that stuff. It's not that I wasn't smart enough to go to university. I just felt like I couldn't cope with writing dissertations and just the discipline required. So I decided to go to a college, which is a lot more... I was still doing my A-levels, which is that further education piece, but it's a lot more like freeform. I was used to a school where a teacher walked in and you stood up. as the teacher walked in, it's very formal and then he goes to college and all the teachers are on first name basis. It's very chill. You're kind of at that age where you can start kind of thinking that you're an adult. So you can start having a beer in the pub and making new friends. And I just sank. I just drowned. That extra freedom was just, I just couldn't do it. That's so interesting. Yeah. You're thinking, okay, I want to get out of a place that's so restrictive. And then that was like maybe the only piece that was helpful in terms of it. Yeah. I mean, I think your experience is so indicative of what it can be like to be ADHD. When you're younger is that sense of, and even when you're older, but that sense of drowning, but also this advice you're getting is not necessarily the advice that you. lead, you know, people like, well, go to a different school and you're like, well, that made it worse. Or they're like, yes, organization. You're like, well, that organization works for you, but not for me. So yeah. So when did this all kind of culminate in realizing that it was ADHD? When I went through my first year of my A-levels, so A-levels you do for two years. And when I got to the end of my first year, I was struggling so much because your A-levels are made up of not just your exams, but also coursework. So throughout the year, you are creating these pieces of work you're expected to you know, you're given hours of free time a day. It's not free time, you're supposed to be sitting there building projects. I wasn't doing that. Yeah. I was not doing that. You're like hours of free time. That's what it is. Oh, yeah. Great one. I got to a point where I was doing four or five A levels and I was predicted As, which is the highest grade that you could get. And I got into each and every exam and people have written on the exam desks and I'm reading the writing and there are noises outside and I can hear the sound of someone turning their page and I'm like, what? Like they're already a page ahead. And then I'm like, Oh my God, I haven't even turned the front page. It's 40 minutes later. And instead of getting the highest marks that I was predicted, I failed all of them. And I just couldn't understand why I couldn't do it. And I had like a little bit of a breakdown and my mum was very sheepish about this because she didn't want to upset me, but she kind of said, you know what, don't get offended, but potentially since you were quite small, we've always wondered if maybe you should go to a doctor. I think when I was younger, they'd realized that some- You can tell me this now. No, but what it was that she, it's funny, like you look back now, my mum. is very, very huge, HD herself. But I think when I was younger, they'd kind of gone, okay, you know, she's something's a bit different. Very strong, special interests as a child and things like that. She was kind of surrounded by people who had said, oh, but Anna is fun and she's unique and she's quirky and she's eccentric and like, don't put a label on her. So I think that was her concern. She didn't want... all these things that she thought were beautiful, fun, quirky, unique personality traits to be like a label and a fault. But it got to this point where she was like, something is clearly not right. She always tells this story about how my room as a teenager was horrendously messy, just stuff everywhere. And her and my dad kept saying, you know, you have to tidy this, you have to tidy this. And I went away for the weekend and they actually went in and tidied my room. And when I got back, they're sat there clenching their hands thinking I was going to go nuclear because how dare they go into a teenager's bedroom and go through all their stuff. Yeah. And I was so happy and grateful. I just burst into tears and they kind of went, oh, okay. So you needed help. So the work was there. Yeah. So, you know, when she said this, I was like, I don't care about labels. I just, my life is dying. Just help me. So yeah, we went to a doctor. at the time, Bristol has like an ADHD clinic, there is like a place here for ADHD people. Bless them, I think it's about a three or four year long waiting list now to speak to them. But you know, that option is clear. Where I was before, where I grew up, it was more like they had like a mental health service and there was someone there who had an interest in ADHD. So I managed to be seen quite quickly and I was diagnosed quite quickly. And to start with, I chose not to be medicated. I just went, I used all these different tactics. My second round of exams, I was in a room by myself. I was wearing a little earplugs so I couldn't hear anything. I was allowed to use a computer and I was given extra time so that every 10, 15 minutes I could stand up and walk around. And I managed to bring all of my grades up by several levels in one set of exams because I managed to score so highly in the second set. And that was a game changer. Honestly, people ask a lot about... diagnosis and stuff. I talk a lot on my Instagram about my experience with ADHD and I get a lot of people asking about being diagnosed and I'm not sure if I want to know. And I'm like, oh my God, please know. You won't believe how much of a difference it will make to you and to the people around you. Just do it. It really did for me. Yeah, no, 100%. And I think it can be really scary to know because it's like, then what happens? Often then what happens is you get a sense of how things work specifically for you. Yeah. And I think your story is a great example of that. Yeah. I've been diagnosed for 12 years now and I still to this day, I'm regularly finding stuff that helps. And it's stuff that I wouldn't even know would help if it wasn't for knowing I had ADHD. For example, there was something, it was actually in one of your podcast episodes where one of your guests was talking about clothes and finding clothes overstimulating. I was like, oh my God. I spent my entire life living in baggy clothes and leggings, and I thought it was just because I liked going to the gym and training, but it's just because the idea of wearing something that isn't stretching comfy makes me itch inside. Yeah. No, 100 percent. So your job is, like you said, you're doing a lot of exercise. You work in marketing and you also provide poll and contortion instruction. So when did you start learning poll? What was that decision? Or was it a decision? It was, yeah. So I started poll about 10 years ago now. It's always amazed me that it stuck because God knows nothing else did. I'm classic at hobbies and nothing ever sticks for a couple of weeks, let alone 10 years. I think with poll, I'd seen a video online of someone doing poll. And just the way it was the coolest thing I had ever seen. And I was like, God, I want to be like that. You know, she was so glamorous and she was wearing these big heels. And she actually ended up working for Cirque du Soleil. She's a very, very cool lady. Oh, wow. Cool. But, you know, I saw a video of her and I saw how like powerful and strong and confident she looked. And I did not feel like that. I was in a really not very nice relationship, a relationship where I was made to feel bad about my body and who I was. And I saw this like. woman with all this confidence and these skills. I was like, God, I want to do that. So as soon as I could go to a class, I did. And I was so frightened that I was actually late because I just sat on the floor outside in the car park and cried because I was too scared to go in. What were you frightened of in that moment? I was scared because I was on my own. And I'd not had good experiences generally in groups as a kid. Again, like undiagnosed ADHD. People always thought I was weird and I didn't understand why, and I cared a lot at that point. I don't care now. But when you're a teenager, you care. And it was on my own, a group of strangers. Yeah, I definitely think a lot of us with ADHD, I don't know very much about the experiences of being male with ADHD in that kind of group. Like it might be a factor as well. But I feel like as a woman with ADHD, I've definitely experienced that feeling of being like, I'm gonna go in and at some point I'm gonna say something and it's gonna be too much Something's gonna happen and that anxiety you're right. That's Tony real thing Yeah, and like where you think it's gone well, and then you get home and you're like, ah, did it go well? Or does now it was everyone just being really nice and now they're like, oh wow, that was really weird It's that classic like oh I've never thought about that before or like, oh, you're funny. And it's just like, oh, that's, I don't know. That kind of like slight pause and quiz cool look before they go, oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's like a British New Zealand cultural thing. Maybe it is, but yeah, that is so interesting. Um, it is actually one of the reasons why it's lovely when you do meet people who are also new and diverse, cause then you're just like, oh my God, this is so wonderful. Yeah. I can just chill. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think, especially as a teenager, when you go into like a new group of people, it's kind of like a test of your masking, which I was doing a lot at the time as a teenager who wasn't very self-confident and I didn't really know myself very well. So it's such a concern. And perhaps that's one of the reasons that POLL stuck is that it was so welcoming. POLL is actually very neurodiverse as a community. I was wondering because I had clients who've done poll as well. That's why I reached out to you because I had clients and they've done poll and I was like, oh, this would be great. Yeah. I don't know what it is about poll, but perhaps it's because it's so welcoming. I think also you've got to be a little bit crazy to do poll because it hurts and it's hard work. I think it's also a comfortable space for people where poll is still something that a lot of people. have kind of odd opinions about, and a lot of people still think it's quite taboo, and they get, people get very funny about it, especially on the internet. And perhaps having such vindication in something that is not as seen as a little bit taboo by society, maybe that's a bit validating for people with ADHD and like neuro spicy things because, you know, we're so used to. like society making us doubt things about ourselves that especially when we're doubting ourselves, but poll you can be really sure about is very, very cool. So maybe that gives some kind of weird validation for us. I don't know. Yeah, definitely, definitely. But you went in, I did eventually. And it was good. Yeah, it just stuck. Again, I expect this is something that a lot of people with ADHD get, but I always, I still to this day, if I'm not immediately good at something. I'm probably not going to do it for very long. Now I'm rethinking everything I've ever done. I don't know what it is. I've heard it referred to on the internet as gifted child syndrome, where I obviously cannot speak to that, but necessarily. But, Paul, I did really struggle. It's very hard work as a sport. You know, it's physically painful in so many ways. For me, there was just so much to think about, so much to get stuck in on. And then I was receiving this beautiful, amazing support from all the people around me for it, that it was the one of the only things where I was like, okay, suck at this. Maybe I'll just keep on doing it. Or one of the first things at least, but yeah, I don't know why it stuck, but I'm very glad it did. That's awesome. And yeah, there is a level of like, I suck at this, but I'm going to try and get better that you have to often. to do something really well, you do have to get to that place, that learning space. And that can be really hard to be like, I'm learning. Because of masking, you know, we're so used to masking. So we're like, I've got this, I know everything and not knowing everything at all. And there's a level maybe to that with learning as well where we're like, you need to know how to do it. I heard a quote once, I think I read it in a book that always stuck out to me, which was that, don't want to be a beginner at something, it's that they don't want other people seeing them be a beginner. So people are much more likely to try something for the first time if they're by themselves, not out in public. That's so interesting. Yeah, as soon as I heard it, I was like, oh, that's actually really true for me that I'm very much kind of one I like hide away and practice at something until I see myself as acceptably good at it to show it off to people. And since I learned that, I try and make a very conscious effort. to not do that and to post videos of myself failing. Yeah. I did watch some of the videos where you didn't complete the whole thing and I was like, I don't know. People love that. I'm not. Yeah. It's just like, yeah, you're learning. You're all doing it. It's great. It's like a physical manifestation of what it often feels like. Exactly. So what does a day in your life look like now? Because you're like, you know, you've got your job and... poll instruction, competitions and other things. Like what is your days look like at this point? So well, within the last week or so, I've tried committing to getting up way earlier so I can try and go to the gym before work, which my partner currently has a bet on with me that it would only last a week. So one more day and I've won. So I'm currently trying to get up early so that I can get up, go to the gym, get that done before my day starts. My job is like a full-time nine to five. So, you know, I'm either in the office or at home for that period of time. And then as soon as I finished work, I normally teach. So I either go to the studio to go and teach pole or I teach stretch classes from home. So I'll teach, make some dinner and then try and get some relaxing time just sitting down. But it doesn't always work like that. I often teach. and then do my own training and then end up eating dinner at like nine, 10 o'clock, which I'm sure my body loves. It was like a really intense day. Yeah. And there's so many other things that I want to do as well. Like with my time, I would love to do some more content creation stuff. I'd love to create stretch videos that people can follow along on YouTube. I'd love to create more content for my students, but at some point, I have to get some sleep. It's hard work. It says everywhere. You feel like that's just a constant ADHD. It's so inconvenient to have to sleep. If I didn't have to sleep, I would get so much stuff. No, I probably wouldn't. I'd probably just end up sitting down. Everyone would be like, this is how much you're supposed to do in a day. And you'd be like, oh. Yeah, just be stuck on the sofa and just like that panic of I really need to go for do something.

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That brings us a little bit to we connected when you started trying the unconventional organizations online courses. What were, I mean, your life sounds very busy and very intense. What were the things you were looking for when you did? reach out and start trying these things, this different way of learning. Well, I'd gotten to a point where I was just really struggling. I sometimes get these periods of my life where I feel very, very overwhelmed, where my body is still, I'm just sat at my desk and I'll be sat there scrolling through Facebook and... Inside, it feels like my body is fighting. It feels like I'm screaming and throwing stuff around, and my body's just frozen. I'm trapped in this actual physical prison. And I just couldn't get out of that. And I was just, I had these different strategies and tactics that were working for me. I found that I was able to get more stuff done if I had my shoes on, like really stupid stuff. But could I get up and go and put my shoes on? No. And it was almost like, oh, I have these strategies that might work for me, but then thinking about, oh, if I do that and it works and I'm just gonna be sat at my desk doing this work for the next four hours, like even that process of thinking about it was just exhausting to the point where I almost didn't wanna do it. I just felt exhausted all the time. And I said in Bristol, we have this ADHD clinic, they're great and I'd reached out to them and been like, really need help. I'm getting to a point where I'm having panic attacks. Like it felt like... I was getting this thing where anytime that I needed to do something, I felt instantly so exhausted, tired that I felt like I needed to have a nap. I was like, you want to try and talk to this poor student? I'm blessed she was great. We were talking it through talking through about went through CBT and we were talking about all these different things about core beliefs and what happens if you you're not trying stuff because you know you're so used to this experience with ADHD where all of your teachers and your parents and things for years since you're a kid have said oh if you just applied yourself you'd be great. I was worried that if you did apply yourself and it wasn't great that you'd then let down 30 years of people and like very deep stuff. And when that ended, I kind of felt like I had more of an understanding of why I was experiencing and doing certain things, but I still didn't have specific tactics that were like, I wasn't even looking for fail saves because I don't think that's possible for ADHD, but I was just looking for something that was more in depth and more reliable than put your shoes on to sit at home and work. And I actually heard a podcast that you did with, I think it was with Eric Tivers, where you were talking about organizing like your work life. There was something you said about, you know, on a Friday, taking yourself out for a nice lunch to plan your week. And I was listening to you talk about the planning process and I was like, wow, that is fascinating. And I wrote it all down and I tried it for a bit. And it was one of the first things that I'd found that worked. Eventually I got to a point where I was like, okay, really struggling, I can't seem to... fix this problem, but I feel like my life is just falling around, like around my ears, and I just can't do anything about it, which is when I signed up for the courses, because I didn't know where else to go. And it was, it was such a funny thing, because I think the very first one that I did was about sustaining focus during boring tasks. And I was like, I cannot believe that this isn't required reading for absolutely everyone who deals with ADHD, because I was like, the advice just makes so much sense, that I was kind of listening, I was like, duh. I can't believe that people have spent so long telling me about the Pomodoro technique and not that maybe the reason that you're sad and struggling is because you have no dopamine in your body and you're actually allowed to do something fun without feeling guilty about it. I was like, oh yeah. Yeah, so much of it is like bringing in that fun, bringing in that dopamine. It is really tough because so many times we've tried so many things. Like you said, we have people say you just need to try the thing but harder. That's like, apply yourself. Can you try the thing, but just try it harder? And it's very frustrating to be like, no, I need to try it in a different way. But no one knows what that different way is because you have to have ADHD to have, you have to be in that. I mean, because I personally, I'm in that brain all the time. Like a lot of the stuff that we developed, yes, there was research behind it and that's completely true, but it's also just stuff that was like, well, this got me off the couch and it got like 50 other people off the couch. there's research behind it. So I guess, again, let's just keep, keep building it. And that's really interesting to hear that was your experience. And that was the first one you did, because that is the one I use probably. It was the one I desperately needed so much help with. It's funny as well, because there's so much that I learned about the core kind of concepts that you teach in those courses where I was kind of able to. almost expand it in different ways into my own life. Like I found that I was going through all these different things to try and get some dopamine and I started going for YouTube videos and I started finding all these like cleaning videos that I found really satisfying. And then I suddenly was hyper focusing on cleaning. I was like, oh my God, I can actually hack my hyper focus by watching some fun, interesting YouTube videos and they're going to make me want to do stuff that I really don't want to do. How interesting. Yeah, yeah, you start becoming an experimenter in your own life. You just need some basic tools to get you started so that you can start shifting things around and experimenting because it is an ongoing process of experimentation. I found the other thing that was really helpful was the permission to do it. I think there's a lot of times where there's very specific things that work for your brain, but they're not things that are normal advice for people. They're not things that neurotypical people need to do. There's been so many times in my life where I'm like, oh, well, I need to do things this specific way because that's how everyone else does it. And then actually being given permission to actually, it's okay if you do something that other people might not do. Like having that permission to experiment in that way and not to feel like I was being cheeky or making it up was really helpful. Yeah, that's so cool. And 100 percent, you know, I always say, bend, break, you know, do whatever you need to do. Know which bits are better to break. Yeah. Sometimes. But definitely, yeah, making your own is so fun because then you can do things like go off and hyper-focus on cleaning and do other things like that for sure. Yeah, exactly. So what are your ADHD go-to strategies now? What are the things that are your touchstones, if you will? My first thing is the dopamine thing. I use the stepped dopamine pathway a lot. And I find that really, really helpful because I'm someone who struggles a lot with my executive dysfunction. And I think something that a lot of people have noticed don't seem to understand about it is how it affects things that you even want to do. I want to go and train pole, but sometimes I just can't, I can't make myself. And that's almost more frustrating because like, I know that I want to do it. So why can't I? And realizing that. that was maybe just because I'd just been doing really boring, draining things for a really long time. And that actually it was okay if I wanted to watch a video or I wanted to go and have like a little dance party. And again, like having the permission to do those things, I found so helpful. And like, especially in the morning before work, like, oh my God, I'm allowed to have fun in the morning? Are you sure? Like, that's helpful. That's been a big one for everyone. I think that's kind of. Isn't that so sad though, that we just as a society are just like, oh no, mornings aren't for fun, God. The other thing that I've done, which I rely on so much is that as much of my life as physically possible is completely automated at this point. You always hear people talking about, you know, chat GPT and all these AIs and then oh God, Skynet, like the robots going to take over the world. And I'm like, take it, take my life. It's much better in the hands of robots. So, you know, all of my finances are automated. I have the most complicated yet uncomplicated. financial system ever. All of my money is like split out and it gets sent to me automatically on the one card that I use so I can't overspend each week. Just loads of stuff. Loads of stuff is completely automated for me. I have spreadsheets that I fill in, templates that I fill in, all this stuff. And I found that the mental load of all the stuff I have to do every day, like being able to give that away to little AIs and stuff, it's been great. I highly recommend just giving your life to Skynet. The other thing that I use a lot is probably to the majority of people, the amount of physical exercise I do is probably quite extreme for a lot of people. But personally, I find that if I don't do that, I always describe it as having the zoomies. I just feel like I get the zoomies, but just trapped inside my body. It feels like I'm sat there all heavy, but the inside of my body is vibrating and wanting to run around everywhere. And sometimes that traps nervous energy. If I don't expend it by doing something physical, turns into problems with my executive dysfunction. I just can't do anything. Regular gym sessions, walks outside, training pole. I do gymnastics. I was doing a roller skating for a bit. Anything kind of physical and fun I find helps just take that layer of energy off, which is great. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think a lot of people feel similarly about that, definitely wanting to get outside, get that dopamine. I mean, we know it supports our working memory as well from the research. That's a huge factor is just being able to be like, right, now I'm going to do it. Just going to go for a little run and do something silly for a little bit. Just run myself around the house. It helps, whatever works. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So... You know, how specifically would you say these ADHD strategies helped you as a poll instructor? Because a lot of people I think are very interested in what that looks like in terms of doing poll, but teaching polls specifically as well. Teaching polls always a funny one with BayDHD because I always had, my students are going to hear this and be like, oh my god, but I always had all these grand designs, I was going to, you know, plan things really far in advance so that everyone goes through this like pathway of, you know, they build up all these tricks that they learn. And I do find that a lot of my like lesson planning of like what tricks we're going to do, I kind of turn up and I see who's in the class and I'm like, hey, maybe you would like this thing, which might sound like a little bit silly. I know like a lot of other instructors don't work that way. You know, the majority of people you go to their class, they've got a whole thing planned out for you. But you know, I'll walk in and I'll remember that someone requested a move like three weeks ago that I totally forgot about. And I'm like, well, you could just do that. that would then fit in with the move that I was going to teach you anyway. So we could do that as a combo and then we could mix that together. And I keep track of everything in a notebook so that I don't then the next week have exactly the same thoughts. Do it again. You're like, oh, you would like this. Yeah. That I find works really well for me because I did try the whole thing of planning eight weeks in advance, but I found that I like to go off on tangents, you know, people will try something, it will remind me of something else, you know, maybe we have to stick with the move for a little bit longer than I had planned so we don't have time to do the whole lesson plan. And then I found that like little change to my plan was suddenly felt like a big deal. You know, if I had like a move that I was planning on getting to, and then that led into something the next week, but we didn't get to it. I'm like, well, that's just messed up everything. So now what am I supposed to do? And that was causing me so much more stress than just giving myself flexibility to do what my body wanted, what my students' bodies wanted, and it made me be able to be a lot more fun with what I was doing. I find that before we did this podcast, I asked some of my students about if they, not if they noticed my ADHD, because I think it's probably quite obvious, but what it was like being taught by someone with ADHD versus someone who wasn't. I asked if there were many differences, and... every single one of them commented on explaining stuff. Because I think maybe it's just being distracted. Like when I'm doing moves, I can feel everything. Like I feel every part of my body that's doing something. My brain can kind of switch around all of those different things. When I explain moves to people, I'm mentioning every single thing that I feel. I'm sure for some people it's confusing, it's like over explaining. But for me, I found that I explain these things, it helps me think of the move, it helps them think of things they might not have thought of before. And they all said they find it really, really helpful, all those little tangents and stuff. So I actually try not to worry too much about my ADHD with teaching. I try not to stress about, am I organized enough for classes? Have I done this? Have I done that? Because I know that my students actually really appreciate what it brings to my teaching style. There's times where I've gone to take meds just before, but I would rather that they had the experience. So it sounds like from what you're saying that there is, we talk a lot about with ADHD, we talk about that flexibility and having that flexibility of like, yes, I have a plan, I have that basis, but I'm also going in and being myself. There's a lot of context and it sounds like you found one of them where being yourself with ADHD is a bonus and that's great. I think podcasting is another one of them, which is really great. One of the things I love about these conversations. Definitely, it really helps my teachers. There are obviously negatives. I teach online a lot and my students all get recordings and I found that the sending out of recordings is the one thing I can't automate. And bless them, you know, they'll be like, hey, Anna, have you sent out that recording from like five days ago? And I'm like, oh, no. And so, you know, bless them, they do have to put up with that as well. But generally, yeah, I found that... allowing myself to be flexible and knowing that that's okay and that's not something to be something to be ashamed of that I haven't I couldn't tell you what we're doing in two weeks time yeah no letting yourself be yourself no that's awesome so what would you say to somebody else who's starting to pursue a similar path with ADHD maybe it's not poll maybe they're teaching something else but there's a sort of similar they've got the full-time job and they're also trying to do this sort of physical creative teaching career on top of it Do you have any advice? Any words of encouragement? It's going to be okay. Make sure you eat lots of food is my main one. I found that I have to not just block time out, but have very, very regular blocked time in order to do all of those things that I want. So I am so tight and specific on my routines. And don't get me wrong, I hate them. Like, oh, it's nothing more infuriating than the fact that I have to live my life by this very set, like I have 15 timers set up on my phone to run my life. It's frustrating and every time an alarm goes off to tell me the next thing to do, I want to punch my phone. But I find that if I don't do that, nothing gets done. You know, I have to make sure that at 7pm on a Tuesday, this is what I do, something very specific. The other thing. Again, I don't know how many things this would apply to necessarily, but when I started teaching and started polling stuff, there was so much that was so exciting that it was easy to run away and start getting really carried away with learning new tricks or my students would request tricks. I'd be like, yeah, we'll do that and not laying the foundations. No one likes doing the basics. The basics are boring and that kind of repetition of those basics is boring. But trying to make... basic fundamental things of your sport, your craft, whatever it is that you're teaching, trying to make them as fun as possible so that you actually are solid in them yourself rather than getting excited and doing the next big thing is really, really important, not just for you but for your students as well because those basics are super, super important. For me, when I started POLL, I was like, I'm going to be a professional. I didn't want to do, like I did all my beginner stuff. And then when I got to the point of starting to progress, I wanted to progress really far, really quickly. And that meant that several years down the line, when I was starting to teach, I was like, Oh, actually people really need all this stuff that I've personally have skipped in the middle. So I had to go back and relearn loads of stuff. And it's just easier if you find a way at the time. Yeah. It definitely makes you bitter at what you do. I think having to teach it. for sure and having them. But like you said, bringing in their dopamine, like making the basics fun, not just for other people, but for yourself as well. Definitely, yeah. Because with pole, you have to be quite strong and a lot of people will do things like crunches. There are very basic strength exercises that people do and they are just so boring. So for me, if I sit there and I hold the pole and I bring my knees up to my chest 10 times in a row, I'm not gonna do it. to do it. So I then was trying to like dance was much more fun to me. So then to work with my conditioning, I was trying to dance those movements and kind of like freestyle dances where I was including moves that are hard on your core so that I could build that strength. Because if the only option was like not fun ones, I would not be doing that. Yeah, definitely. And you can always add a podcast. Exactly. A lot of podcasts. A good fun podcast. We talk about them so much and I know that you talked about them in social media as well. It's funny because I never listened to podcasts. I always thought that podcasts had to be an extra opportunity to learn something. So if I zoned out for a second and missed something, I was like, well, there's no point. So finding podcasts that I found funny and were like low pressure, just silly podcasts was helpful. Yeah. And giving yourself permission as well. I think that's one of the things that... It's interesting about you, like I'm paying for a course and this course is telling me that I get to have fun. Honestly, like I said, it's such a shock. I think for me, and I'm sure a lot of people have experienced this, I spent so long with people being disappointed in me, people feeling like I wasn't reaching my full potential, people feeling like I was lazy or I just couldn't be bothered or that I was wasting my life. I always felt like I had to be presenting a very specific version of myself. I had to be on the go all the time. I had to be successful. Otherwise, I was either going to be in trouble, which is a weird feeling to have as an adult that sometimes you're scared to do stuff because you don't want to be told off. But I just didn't want people to almost agree with thinking that I was being lazy because I was sitting and watching something silly on TV. So being allowed to do that and finding how much it really helped my brain and being able to be like, well, it's fine because Sky said I could. It's been very great. Yeah, and I sanged you that. But yeah, definitely. I agree. I think it is one of those things, and it's really nice. We give each other permission, and we give each other strategies as well. Exactly. I just have a few last questions for you. One of them is, tell us about one professional achievement that you're most proud of. I've done some really cool things, but I've been so lucky with Pohl to have had some really, really incredible opportunities. As you saw at the beginning, I've been able to perform in these incredible places, these incredible people. But honestly, my proudest achievement is one that might seem a bit silly in comparison to that. But... I was teaching a beginner's pole class, which I don't teach many beginners for poles. So it's amazing to be able to be part of their journey. And it was, I looked around, we were doing a move that is quite a hard move for beginners. It's called inverting. It's literally going upside down on the pole. And I looked around and I realized that all these people who were trying it for the very first time were fully upside down with like beautiful positioning and beautiful control. Yeah. not a very well-structured way and it took me a really long time to get it and a really long time to get it looking nice. It was looking around at everyone and being like, the research that I've done, the time I've put into this, the things that I've learned have meant that this whole room of people, their pole journey is going to go almost an entirely different way to how my own did. That felt amazing, being able to know that. that was due to time and effort that I'd put in researching and being a bit nerdy, just sitting there reading all this stuff. It felt great. And it means so much to be like, POLL is such an incredible space for so many people and being able to make them feel like that is just everything. Everything you want to do. Yeah. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's so true. So my other question is, is there a professional failure that embarrasses you? And how did you deal with it? You know what? I am one, just one of those people, embarrassing stuff happens to me all the time. You know, I've, I fell over on stage at Glastonbury in eight inch heels. Um, Wow. Those, I cannot even imagine how you got up. Well, it took me a really long time to hit the floor. You know, it was one of those things where I put like five steps and every single step my ankle went, it was, Oh gosh. Um, you know, I've accidentally tied my boots together on stage upside down and had. someone had to come and rescue me. One of the very first classes I taught, I got to the end, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this on the podcast, but I got to the end of the class and I said goodbye to everyone. I looked down and my was poking out of my top. I had no awareness of whether it had been like that for like two minutes or like the entire hour long class. It's a very extreme version of do I have something in my teeth. Literally. I was like, did no one notice or were they too embarrassed to tell me? So that kind of stuff happens to me all the time, but I think one of the beautiful things, and I'm gonna blame this on being an ADHD thing, is that I am so forgetful that it's really easy for me to compartmentalize this kind of stuff. Something embarrassing happens, and I'm like, well, in a week I'll have forgotten about it. Don't get me wrong, in 10 years' time, someone will bring it up and I will be mortified, but unless it's brought up, I'm just gonna forget about it. It's gonna be great. Just gonna keep going. I'll do something else embarrassing in a bit and I'll think about that in a bit. And if you had an ADHD life motto, and you know, it doesn't have to be the motto, it could just be our motto, what would it be? I can't take credit for this one. This is something that I think it was Connor DeWolf on TikTok was talking about a lot, but he always says follow the dopamine. Yeah. I love that because you know, I'm a serial hobby switch. My hobby is having hobbies. I always do that thing where I get really, really into something and I spend hundreds of pounds like buying all of this stuff to be able to do it. And like, this is me, this is my career, this is my life. And then two weeks later, I'm so bored. And you know, I just ended with these piles of things I bought for hobbies I did for 10 days. And there was a long time where I was like, God, what is wrong with me? Why do I keep doing this? It's so annoying. Focusing on that kind of follow the dopamine thing, I was just like, you know what? This is my thing for now. I don't know how long it's going to last for, but that's okay. I'll either keep hold of that stuff because probably in four or five years time, I'll loop back around to it, which I find happens a lot. I found a group that's called ADHD Hobby Swap, where people who also do that exact same thing, they just send each other. of the stuff. And that's been great. And you know what, you're probably just going to be happier if you do it and you just lean fully in and you accept that it might be a couple of weeks, it might be a couple of years, it might last forever. But there's no point trying to hold back because sometimes I don't know if you've ever had this, but sometimes when I like find a new hobby or a new obsession, I'm like, Oh, well, I better not do that every single day, I better try and like balance it out. Because I don't want to be crazy obsessive about it and then forget about it. just being like, actually, I'm not going to have as much fun if I try and limit that. So I might as well just like suck all of the dopamine out of this that I probably can. And then when it's empty, I'll just go and get a new thing. It's made life much easier. That is so interesting. Yeah, I think I do a similar thing. I think obviously with finances in mind, because I have spent a lot of money on hobbies that I don't have anymore. Although I do often think about the idea of, I think somebody else said this, which was that. Trying hobbies is my hobby. Yeah, literally. It's so much fun to try hobbies. And I think it's a very legitimate hobby. People always look at you like you're mad if you say it, but it's very true. Yeah. And you can try a lot of things. And like you said, with Paul and other things, you know, sometimes something sticks and you're like, whoa, it's still here. Yeah. What a shock. And it becomes this amazing thing. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and taking the time to share your story. This has been great. The skills. Yeah, it's been wonderful to have you. So if people are interested in working with you and learning more about you, where can they find you? I live my entire life on Instagram. My Instagram handle is frostdance. You can also find stretch stuff on flexi with frosty, which both have a Y at the end. But I'll be honest, I worked really hard on that for like two weeks and I forgot about it. But you never know. Go and have a look at Flexit Frosty, maybe I'll start updating it at some point. But Frost Dance, I'm always there. Yeah, yeah, no, that's awesome. Well, it's really wonderful to have you, Anna. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me. 

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